The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Did he say greater right ?

the inference of his words were clear, about a right that a country had that a county didn't.

There was no mention of a mandate, but according to you that's 100% what he said without any reference to any mandate ... but it can't be about a greater right because he didn't mention anything about rights? PMSL.

as you'd say: desperate stuff.

 

Quote

My admittedly tedious point is that the Snp currently sit on a mandate, voted through at the Scottish election.... in our parliament. I'm not aware of any Counties having a similar mandate but I'm all ears.....well eyes.

If he was on about a mandate, he could have simply said about a mandate.

He didn't, he spoke about a right one area of the UK has that other areas do not.

Tell me what the civic is when he claims some people are special.

Edited March 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, LJS said:

You may wish to check what sturgeon said.

her exact words were "it's our currency as much as it is the currency of anywhere else".

Except it's not. It's not a currency acceptable to the EU for a new member state. As the Montenegro example shows, the EU insist on a sovereign currency for its new members at accession.

Those words of hers along with what she said about the EU) suggest it's a currency acceptable to the EU, when it's not.

She's suggesting you can be in the EU and keep the pound, when it's clearly impossible as Montenegro shows and EU accession rules make clear.

But she's not trying to bullshit stupid you, oh no. :lol:

And that's why you're defending her deliberate choice to mislead Scotland.

 

[eFestivals]

"keeping the pound is our starting point" - that's a starting point that stops Scotland being an EU member.

 

[eFestivals]

PS: I see you and her still don't grasp the difference between a govt institution and govt assets.

The Ministry of Defence is an institution, it's military hardware are the assets.

The Bank of England is an institution, it's reserves are its assets.

 

[Comfy Bean]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the inference of his words were clear, about a right that a country had that a county didn't.

 

Ah.....the inference of his words.

[Comfy Bean]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

"keeping the pound is our starting point" - that's a starting point that stops Scotland being an EU member.

 

Define " starting point " ?

Clue : it`s the currency we have at the moment and will probably be our........

Personally I hope Sturgeon has more to come on this over the coming couple of years but I`m content with the quid being our starting point as the initial vote isn`t till Wednesday so one step at a time.

[eFestivals]

I'm also loving how the woman who has been criticising May for having no plan has gone on TV and admitted she doesn't have a plan. 

Apparently it's a failing to say "I have a commission looking at a plan" if May says it. but Sturgeon said it herself. Priceless!

"there is no queue to join the EU". True. There is a history of new members taking 10+ years to join - that's *ALL* new applications since 1999 (and some of those new members were a lot closer fit to the the membership rules than Scotland is).

[eFestivals]

8 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Ah.....the inference of his words.

when i infer stuff to his words it's just an inference, when you do it's the truth...?

He said "Scotland is being treated like a county not a country". That and nothing more.

That's a clear statement of a greater right for countries. A statement of inequality.

Fuck all that's civic, and everything based on history.

Blood & soil.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Define " starting point " ?

why not ask your FM to define it?

 

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Clue : it`s the currency we have at the moment and will probably be our........

Do you think iScotland also gets to keep a say over the rUK MOD, rUK DSS, rUK NHS, rUK education, rUK foreign policy, and everything else rUK?

Or does iScotland give up on independence all rights over rUK institutions (while getting a fair share of assets)?

The BoE is a govt institution. You're welcome to a share of its assets (about £12Bn worth as it happens) - not even enough to cover the shortfall for the first year's payroll.

iScotland can use the pound, but it cannot issue Sterling debt. iScotland would be fucked.

iScotland would have £12bn in reserves, but very-similar Denmark needs £50bn (or is iScotland better than Denmark)?

iScotland can issue its own currency. 

I'll issue popcorn.

 

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Personally I hope Sturgeon has more to come on this over the coming couple of years but I`m content with the quid being our starting point as the initial vote isn`t till Wednesday so one step at a time.

if it's your starting point then bankruptcy is also your starting point.

Scotland has a £15Bn deficit until it stops spending 25% more than it has in revenues.

[Comfy Bean]

2 hours ago, lost said:

It was the tone of the article. The polish are are respected in Scotland, England is now a racist place and Scotland needs to vote for independence to get away from it.

 

Fair enough, that`s your take on it. I posted that particular article to counter the many comments on here about Scotland being a racist place. For the record I don`t think Scotland or England are particularly racist places to live but as ever there are idiots on both sides. 

Here`s another view from the Electoral Reform Society. Other opinions are available as we often see on here. I`m only posting this one to counter your superior master race comment that " the rest of us " ??? find offensive.

Neil often posts about scottish exceptionalism. Don`t believe the hype 

We also have many posts on here already about hatred of the English etc being the driving force. You are going with demonize the other. Not everyone sees it like this, fortunately, but of course some do....on both sides.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/01/electoral-reform-campaigners-slam-dire-eu-referendum-debate

“It offered a stark contrast to the vibrant, well-informed, grassroots conversation of the Scottish independence vote – a referendum that left a lasting legacy of ongoing public participation in politics and public life,” she said.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I posted that particular article to counter the many comments on here about Scotland being a racist place.

being a no-less racist place than england.

Every opportunity for a lie, you're there.

is that because the facts are helpful to indy, or because lies are?

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

We also have many posts on here already about hatred of the English etc being the driving fo

Wings Over Scotland.

The leading website for independence.

Where hatred of the English is the driving force.

Which is all the more amusing when it's written in England because there's no Scots able to represent indy better, and there's no leading civic indy website.

Edited March 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

“It offered a stark contrast to the vibrant, well-informed, grassroots conversation of the Scottish independence vote – a referendum that left a lasting legacy of ongoing public participation in politics and public life,” she said.

well informed...?

Care to say what was well informed about your backing of 15% of the Scottish Govt budget with imaginary money?

It's not like no one said that the oil price was volatile and it was foolish to base such a large proportion of govt spending on such a volatile source of funding.

(and further, it was pointed out that Salmond had self-invented the numbers he used, and there was no basis in fact for them).

In England we laughed at the brexit lies and the snippers lies. You sucked up one set of lies and that made everything cuddly.

And utterly utterly wrong, by more than Boris and Govt and Farage.

Edited March 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

Wings Over Scotland.

The leading website for independence.

Where hatred of the English is the driving force.

 

My point was that on here....you specifically claim that hatred of England is a driving force. You`ve called Sturgeon racist plus her supporters including the ones on here. Fortunately the vast majority don`t think it`s about hatred of anyone 

Racist, facist, nazis ...there`s no stopping you !

[lost]

1 hour ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

" lucky " Mr  Sutkowski and the New York Times were only giving their opinion. Other opinions are available.

I agree with you about Bristol.

Hows their bid for Indy going :-)

Yes but people are still going to call it out. If you'd posted similar articles I've seen in the US press quoting some random Swede saying Malmo is now a no go area for whites, those of us who have been there are going to go with what we've seen and believe it's a fabricated piece to push a certain political agenda.

And this "only a opinion" only seems to work one way. What Sadiq Khan said wasn't a tenth as bad as that yet nationalists were in melt down screaming dog whistle politics 

[eFestivals]

Just now, comfortablynumb1910 said:

My point was that on here....you specifically claim that hatred of England is a driving force.

I do.

I haven't said it's your driving force.

I've said it's very VERY clearly one of the major driving forces. It can be seen in huge amounts anywhere that snippers have their say.

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Fortunately the vast majority don`t think it`s about hatred of anyone 

yet the vast majority of snippers who express a view express an anti-English view.

It's laughable that you claim otherwise. Have you ever met a Scot?

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, lost said:

And this "only a opinion" only seems to work one way. What Sadiq Khan said wasn't a tenth as bad as that yet nationalists were in melt down screaming dog whistle politics 

Nailed.

Indy is Farage on steroids. The same use of a hated other, the same pursuit of sovereignty at all costs.

As Sturgeon said herself, indy transcends everything - including all  sense.

[Comfy Bean]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

Yes but people are still going to call it out. If you'd posted similar articles I've seen in the US press quoting some random Swede saying Malmo is now a no go area for whites, those of us who have been there are going to go with what we've seen and believe it's a fabricated piece to push a certain political agenda.

And this "only a opinion" only seems to work one way. What Sadiq Khan said wasn't a tenth as bad as that yet nationalists were in melt down screaming dog whistle politics 

I specifically said other opinions were available.

I have never posted a link on here from wings, the other one that got shut down or the national for the exact reasons you point out about them clearly pushing a certain political agenda. 

As far as I`m aware the New York Times and the Electoral Reform Commission don`t have a horse in this race.

Fair enough if you have made up your mind on the master race stuff or if you have concluded that it`s all about hatred of the english and wrapped in a flag nationalism like Neil but if you have, then not everyone sees it like that. This is / was my point.

It`s a shame that people on both sides see it like that.

[Comfy Bean]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yet the vast majority of snippers who express a view express an anti-English view.

It's laughable that you claim otherwise. Have you ever met a Scot?

Oh dear 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Oh dear 

Look under any indy article in any newspaper, and you'll see huge amounts of anti-English bile - with no indy supporters calling it out.

Are you really trying to claim it's a small thing amongst indy supporters?

Edited March 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I'm also loving how the woman who has been criticising May for having no plan has gone on TV and admitted she doesn't have a plan. 

Apparently it's a failing to say "I have a commission looking at a plan" if May says it. but Sturgeon said it herself. Priceless!

 

We're having our commission before the referendum...not 9 months after.

 

[LJS]

46 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Look under any indy article in any newspaper, and you'll see huge amounts of anti-English bile - with no indy supporters calling it out.

Are you really trying to claim it's a small thing amongst indy supporters?

That's if you can get past folk calling the SNP Nazis & no one call them out for it.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

yet the vast majority of snippers who express a view express an anti-English view.

It's laughable that you claim otherwise. Have you ever met a Scot?

It's pish Neil.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, LJS said:

We're having our commission before the referendum...not 9 months after.

 

but it's still deciding on an action before knowing if the plan justifies the action. 

It's as no-plan as brexit.

From the woman who goes around criticising others for no-plan.

But as she's already admitted the want of indy transcends all sense, no differently to how Farage's want of brexit transcends all sense.