The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

35 minutes ago, LJS said:

It's just that I can't remember ever saying "iScotland will be the world's best performing developed economy"

You've said that it can grow it's economy by enough - and by more than whole-UK - to make the deficit an irrelevance and not need spending cuts.

That would require Scotland to be the best performing developed economy in the world.

So tell me how come Scotland can grow it's economy in that way.

 

[eFestivals]

32 minutes ago, LJS said:

Incidentally, your clerical buddy in Bath tweeted something mildly insensitive at the height of yesterday's furore. He was roundly and publicly condemned by many "snippers" as you call them including my son, some of whose work I posted on here recently. Of course his most loyal supporters remained true to the cause.

He then restricted himself to tweeting about fray bentos pies & The Chase"

I see he's gone a tweet spree to hide it.

Reminds me of someone who posts videos when things get a bit awkward.

[LJS]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I see he's gone a tweet spree to hide it.

Reminds me of someone who posts videos when things get a bit awkward.

A long time ago in a far away universe, I had this crazy belief that this might be a place where we could have a civilised chat, perhaps a bit light hearted at times. With maybe a few laughs & the odd song thrown in.

How foolish I was.

[LJS]

5 hours ago, eFestivals said:

You've said that it can grow it's economy by enough - and by more than whole-UK - to make the deficit an irrelevance and not need spending cuts.

That would require Scotland to be the best performing developed economy in the world.

So tell me how come Scotland can grow it's economy in that way.

 

I'm glad you have confirmed that I haven't said what you claimed. Your retraction  is appreciated. 

[eFestivals]

47 minutes ago, LJS said:

A long time ago in a far away universe, I had this crazy belief that this might be a place where we could have a civilised chat, perhaps a bit light hearted at times. With maybe a few laughs & the odd song thrown in.

How foolish I was.

for the last year you've only thrown in songs as "this is something I don't want to discuss"  and we both know why. Inconvenient facts.

I'd prefer it was light-hearted, but when the effect of your wants will be to impoverish the poorest same as any tory, it's deadly serious.

Some of us have stuck by our want to do the best we can for the most disadvantaged.

[eFestivals]

48 minutes ago, LJS said:

I'm glad you have confirmed that I haven't said what you claimed. Your retraction  is appreciated. 

You have said that the Scottish economy will do what it never has done, and surpass its current strength (and the strength of the world's most developed economies) and grow by so much that cuts (or comparitive cuts against rUK spend) will not be necessary.

I keep asking you what the basis is for your prediction of outstanding growth for Scotland. You never say.

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

You have said that the Scottish economy will do what it never has done, and surpass its current strength (and the strength of the world's most developed economies) and grow by so much that cuts (or comparitive cuts against rUK spend) will not be necessary.

I keep asking you what the basis is for your prediction of outstanding growth for Scotland. You never say.

I keep asking for you to find the bit where I said that "the Scottish economy will do what it never has done, and surpass its current strength (and the strength of the world's most developed economies) and grow by so much that cuts (or comparitive cuts against rUK spend) will not be necessary."

I keep waiting. 

[LJS]

Neil,I though I'd pop a wee bit on hear about your latest startling revelation of SNP evil in delaying the resumption of the Indyref2 debate by 3 whole days thus putting their whole Indy masterplan in jeopardy all to ensure they are not competing for headlines with a terrorist attack. I'm replying here as it is clearly part of your public information about the SNP" campaign and no longer anything to do with general news.

But then, in fact, its not news at all,

If there was any truth in your story, you would, someone else would have picked up on it & be calling the SNP out for it.

I've searched high & low (very low) and I can find nothing. Ruth, Kezia & wee Wullle have nothing to say on the matter. The Herald Scotsman Record & Guardian are equally tight lipped. I even descended into vile cesspit that is extreme Yoon twitter where the SNP were being accused of pretty much everything imaginable ... except deliberately & cynically delaying the vote. 

So, Neil, I can only fall at your feet in admiration. 

You and only you have spotted this evil duplicity by the SNP.

You are indeed remarkable. 

 

by the way, Neil ... I don't know your second name

is it Innes?

Time for a song

 

Edited March 23, 2017 by LJS
needed a song

[LJS]

'IS white powder letter' sparks emergency alert at pub

Part of a Moray town was cordoned off after a suspect package was found in a pub.

Emergency services were called to Reidhaven Square in Keith after the landlord of the Crown Inn received a letter and a foil packet containing what police described as "an unidentified substance".

The letter claimed to be from the "UK IS Support Group".

It urged support for "the leader N Sturgeon" and local MP Angus Robertson.

https://stv.tv/amp/1383955-is-white-powder-letter-sparks-emergency-alert-at-pub/

Neil, we never found out your estimate for the number of Anti English snippers. What did you make of my last estimate that your % equalled  165,000 or more. Does that seem about right to you?

[LJS]

Back to the war on terror. Yesterday, you could barely contain your excitement at, as you saw it, a great chance to attack the SNP ...

"Does Scotland and Sturgeon have the sense of independence that she likes to talk up?

Clearly not, when what happens in 'a foreign country' brings to an end discussions about the future of your own."

When it became clear that those screaming for Holyrood proceedings to be suspended were not from the SNP or the greens, you fell curiously silent. Why is something only worthy of your criticism when it is done by the SNP? I am waiting patiently for your condemnation of labour & the Tories.

Even worse, while the "old parties" were screaming like banshees to get Holyrood business suspended, their colleagues in Cardiff carried on with business as usual. 

Now, I wonder why things  might have been do different there.

Since, you have such great insight, I await your reply with great anticipation.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

I keep asking for you to find the bit where I said that "the Scottish economy will do what it never has done, and surpass its current strength (and the strength of the world's most developed economies) and grow by so much that cuts (or comparitive cuts against rUK spend) will not be necessary."

I keep waiting. 

For Scotland to remain as wealthy as now and also match your "Scotland will grow its economy to sort the deficit" thing, Scotland would have to out-perform the performance levels of the UK quite significantly - by so much Scotland would be the best performing developed economy in the world.

So I'm asking why you think will Scotland suddenly become the best performing economy in the world....?

It's fucking simple, it's from what you've been saying for many many months. So either you're now playing idiot games, or you don't have the first fucking clue what it is you're really predicting.

So I'm asking why you think will Scotland suddenly become the best performing economy in the world....?

If you're now saying that Scotland won't become the best performing economy in the world, then you're accepting the need of massive cuts that would be needed to make the finances work.

If the money is coming from somewhere, you need to say where - AND how. You only ever say where but not how. I'm asking how. If you don't know the how, there cannot be the money you predict.

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, LJS said:

Since, you have such great insight, I await your reply with great anticipation.

I'll get back to you on this after you've addressed the question I've been asking for months.

If, as you've been saying constantly, the Scottish economy is going to grow by so much that it won't need cuts and Scotland will keep its current comparative wealth levels with the UK, why will the Scottish economy grow by that exceptional amount....?

[LJS]

Look!

" Just three days after the referendum, the head of the EU affairs committee in the German parliament said that “the EU will continue to have 28 member states, as I expect another independence referendum in Scotland.” Shortly after, then-Economy Minister and Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel (who has since become foreign minister) promised Edinburgh that “the EU will certainly take in Scotland, if [it] wants to leave the U.K. and enter the EU.”"

http://www.politico.eu/article/when-scotland-met-germany/amp/

Of course, this is all nonsense, as Neil understands the EU better than the German vice chancellor.

[kaosmark2]

Spain and Belgium (and I think others) have explicitly said they will veto any attempt for an independent Scotland to join the EU.

Several countries are trying to shut down separatist movements in their own countries, and have no interest in endorsing one in another. The nature of the EU veto rules means that it's not what the Germans care about, it's what the most obstinate country's politicians care about.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Spain and Belgium (and I think others) have explicitly said they will veto any attempt for an independent Scotland to join the EU.

No they haven't

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

Several countries are trying to shut down separatist movements in their own countries, and have no interest in endorsing one in another. The nature of the EU veto rules means that it's not what the Germans care about, it's what the most obstinate country's politicians care about.

I guess the German vice chancellor may be slightly more clued up on this stuff than you or me...or even Neil.

Last time round, the  UK had some influence in the EU & were able to call in favours and get their EU colleagues to make discouraging noises about I Scotland's chances of joining the EU. Funnily enough, this is no longer the case.

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, LJS said:

No they haven't

I guess the German vice chancellor may be slightly more clued up on this stuff than you or me...or even Neil.

Last time round, the  UK had some influence in the EU & were able to call in favours and get their EU colleagues to make discouraging noises about I Scotland's chances of joining the EU. Funnily enough, this is no longer the case.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/scottish-nationalists-spanish-independent-scotland-brexit-snp

"Foreign minister Alfonso Dastis has been crystal clear about what would happen if Scotland left the UK before Brexit. “If by mutual agreement and by virtue of constitutional change Scotland ended up being independent, our thesis is that it could not stay inside the European Union,” he said this week. “It would have to join the queue, meet the requirements, go through the recognised negotiating system and the end result will be whatever those negotiations produce.”

[LJS]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/15/scottish-nationalists-spanish-independent-scotland-brexit-snp

"Foreign minister Alfonso Dastis has been crystal clear about what would happen if Scotland left the UK before Brexit. “If by mutual agreement and by virtue of constitutional change Scotland ended up being independent, our thesis is that it could not stay inside the European Union,” he said this week. “It would have to join the queue, meet the requirements, go through the recognised negotiating system and the end result will be whatever those negotiations produce.”

In other words  they wouldn't veto an independent Scotland joining the EU. 

Thanks Kaos.

Edited March 27, 2017 by LJS

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

Look!

" Just three days after the referendum, the head of the EU affairs committee in the German parliament said that “the EU will continue to have 28 member states, as I expect another independence referendum in Scotland.” Shortly after, then-Economy Minister and Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel (who has since become foreign minister) promised Edinburgh that “the EU will certainly take in Scotland, if [it] wants to leave the U.K. and enter the EU.”"

http://www.politico.eu/article/when-scotland-met-germany/amp/

Of course, this is all nonsense, as Neil understands the EU better than the German vice chancellor.

it's the latest myth. You can even find lots of snippers posting in the last 48 hours that the EU is going to make an announcement about Scotland this week.

You can also find plenty of snippers saying the EU are going to give Scotland a free pass just to show how much the EU hate the english but love scotland, but of course there's nothing anti-English within or about about that. It's just about how much Scotland is loved.

The EU can make all the announcements they like - they won't, but they could - because Scotland would have to commit to joining the Euro, and then it all goes tits up.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, Scotland doesn't meet the accession criteria and is as Euro-skeptic as the rest of the UK - so much so that in the 2014 white paper it was all laid out in black and white. 

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

No they haven't

True.

But Spain has made *repeatedly* clear that they'll be no fast access for any new member.

The last three applicants all took longer than 10 years to get the 35 chapters signed off, and they were closer to meeting them at the start of that process than Scotland currently is.

Meanwhile, brexit is stupidness personified but something MUCH bigger than brexit and with a stonking deficit is one for the brainy guys who just know Scotland cannot be worse off, it's just impossible, even when 25% of it's govt spending is unfunded.

Edited March 27, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

I guess the German vice chancellor may be slightly more clued up on this stuff than you or me...or even Neil.

Only if Scotland is joining the German Empire.

Are you?

 

Quote

Last time round, the  UK had some influence in the EU & were able to call in favours and get their EU colleagues to make discouraging noises about I Scotland's chances of joining the EU. Funnily enough, this is no longer the case.

OMFG.

The eastern states are just about to lose a £10Bn a year freebie. They're not going to vote themselves even less.

The western states are about to have extra EU costs dumped on them. They're not going to vote themselves even more.

I don't doubt that iScotland could get into the EU, but it's not going to be quick, and it's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be cheap, and if/when it happens you'll have thrown away 65% of business for the good of 16%.

But i know with certainty that this sort of bullshit will get pumped faster than Scottish oil as an attempt to keep the questions away from the stonking deficit and how iScotland will be poorer, much poorer, poorer than 'brexit Britian'.

Edited March 27, 2017 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

5 hours ago, LJS said:

In other words  they wouldn't veto an independent Scotland joining the EU. 

Thanks Kaos.

True.

They'd leave you dangling in the shit for at least 10 years first.

That's something for you to celebrate, eh?

[LJS]

Head of yes campaign last time, on how Yes can win this time.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/yes-campaign-can-win-indyref2-heres/

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Head of yes campaign last time, on how Yes can win this time.

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/yes-campaign-can-win-indyref2-heres/

 

and yet latest polling says....

over-65's are more against indy than in 2014 ... but don't worry, snippers can all wish them dead more than snippers have been doing for the last 3 years.

And more yes voters from 2014 plan to vote no next time than no voters plan to vote yes.

I see Scots still like people called Blair... tho not really so surprising, as the SNP are more Blairite than Blair was.  

And I see he claims a moral victory for last time for being 'more' everything, tho he's missed 'more liars' from his list, which has since been exposed as that lie.

And we're still waiting for the new lies, along with the plan that everyone needs to have before making a choice according to the woman who's already made her choice but without a plan to choose over.

It's still all about the money, and until the indy campaign are prepared to discuss the money it's going nowhere.

[eFestivals]

Oh, and a nice fat lie too...

Now we have to vote Yes to stay in!

PMSL

Scotland arte not i the EU, and voting for indy doesn't make Scotland "stay in".

iScotland can apply to join, IF iScotland also wants to commit to the Euro. There will be no EU membership for iScotland without that full formal commitment to the euro. 

I look forwards to you telling me how iScotland can avoid the Euro alongside your claim of iScotland being fully committed to the EU project.

[eFestivals]

and then there's this....

Quote

The Sturgeon factor

The third key difference is Nicola Sturgeon. She is admired and respected nationally and internationally. Her inclusive and measured approach is exactly right for the campaign that lies ahead

Which may or may not be true.

What is true, tho, is that lots of people in Scotland have noticed that there's no one else. Unlike in 2014 there's no well-regarded successor waiting in the wings. There's Sturgeon and then there's a big bunch of no-talents that aren't even allowed their own minds.

Which is a bit inconvenient when the SNP are pointing out the lack of talent in the Labour Party. It might be short when it's desperately needed, but it's not as short as shorty and no-mates.

Edited March 27, 2017 by eFestivals