The Dirty Independence Question

[gary1979666]

On ‎31‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 7:38 PM, LJS said:

I have never ever ever complained about not getting the government I voted for. I don't expect that for a minute. 

So what you voted for and what you got are entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

Just in case you missed it, here's what I said

 

I've highlighted two words to help you understand. 

Now, there is a longstanding discussion around whether Scotland has a different status to Shropshire or Neil's (or gary's) bedroom. I would suggest that therein lies the root of our disagreement.

I believe that Scotland with a parliament, a separate and distinctive legal and education system is not directly   comparable to Neil's bedroom with its distinctive sock arrangement system. Sadly, Gary, I have no insight into how you arrange your undergarments. Unlike Neil, you have never invited me into your bedroom.

Feel free to take a different view. I'm all for diversity 

Your country?  I thought you lived in the UK? 

If only there'd been a vote about whether the Scots would rather go it on their own! .....I know!

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I missed the north Korean bit , Neil.

Mibbe cos it wisnae' there.

 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I suggest you go and read up on Shetland's oil fund before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

How is life in your bizarre alternative universe,Neil?

 

people like you, at war with reality, will never find happiness.

Because indy will not be the reality you pretend it will be.

[eFestivals]

On 3/31/2017 at 7:38 PM, LJS said:

I believe that Scotland with a parliament, a separate and distinctive legal and education system is not directly   comparable to Neil's bedroom with its distinctive sock arrangement system.

then the answer is just as much "abolish Holyrood" as it might be to increase its powers.

Edited April 3, 2017 by eFestivals

[gary1979666]

On ‎01‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 1:36 AM, LJS said:

We don't want a referendum now. Theresa May is denying Scots a choice by refusing to even discuss our democratically elected government's request for permission to hold a referendum.

And Scotland might just have other priorities than falling into line with the Ukip driven whims of some other parts of the UK.

 

So you're saying we shouldn't give in to the nationalist elements of our electorate?

I know we've had these discussions before, but just because you deem the reasons for Joxit to be 'better' than the reasons given to leave the EU (by certain groups - i.e. the racists - but I know a few who voted for more sovereignty (sound familiar?)), doesn't make either more justified.

I just don't get the how you can't see how there's no consistency.  Wanting to leave the EU is a whim, but Scotland leaving the UK isn't? 

[Comfy Bean]

Liking the comparisons with North Korea :-)

[Comfy Bean]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

then the answer is just as much "abolish Holyrood" as it might be to increase its powers.

Abolish simply ain't happening as fine you know :-) 

Increasing powers on route to independence is quite clearly the direction of travel.

Now is not the time of course but it won't be that far down the tracks.

[Comfy Bean]

17 hours ago, lost said:

But your quite happy to take a single 10 month old article about Jersey as gospel? There is a much bigger indy movement proportionally in Shetland and that's before Sturgeons austerity has started to reduce the massive deficit, Why would anyone hang around to face larger cuts than Greece suffered when there is a simple way to avoid it? as I said once Pandoras box has been opened.. All it will take is for a talented politician to suggest the population can have all this free stuff if they leave with the oil.

Is this a serious prediction ?

[eFestivals]

28 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Liking the comparisons with North Korea :-)

that's what a leading indy-ist suggested, and LJS recommended as the deficit solution.

If you don't like what your own side it suggesting take it up with them.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Abolish simply ain't happening as fine you know :-) 

Increasing powers on route to independence is quite clearly the direction of travel.

Now is not the time of course but it won't be that far down the tracks.

You used to say "indy is inevitable". Any reason why you've stopped saying that?

Yeah, not far, not far at all.

And if you do get it, you'll discover that reality can't be wished away with lies.

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Is this a serious prediction ?

cuts as big as the cuts in Greece?

Yes, that's a serious problem for iScotland.

Care to tell me how it's possible to continually spend 27% more than you have, so that iScotland doesn't go like Greece?

Edited April 3, 2017 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

Just now, eFestivals said:

You used to say "indy is inevitable". Any reason why you've stopped saying that?

Yeah, not far, not far at all.

And if you do get it, you'll discover that reality can't be wished away with lies.

I do think it is inevitable. Will hopefully happen before "we" are at war with Spain :-)

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I do think it is inevitable. Will hopefully happen before "we" are at war with Spain :-)

Is that the new lie you're using on your countrymen?

Tho why you think Scots are more stupid than you are I've no idea.

Edited April 3, 2017 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

cuts as big as the cuts in Greece?

Yes, that's a serious problem for iScotland.

Care to tell me how it's possible to continually spend 27% more than you have, so that iScotland doesn't go like Greece?

Greece ?

I don't see the similarities. North Korea, nazi Germany, Greece...

lol 

I agree that an Indy Scotland will need to take a different path and that the debt etc is out of control. Not sure this can all be covered by  snp bad though.

[eFestivals]

36 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Greece ?

I don't see the similarities. North Korea, nazi Germany, Greece...

lol 

I agree that an Indy Scotland will need to take a different path and that the debt etc is out of control. Not sure this can all be covered by  snp bad though.

It's only snippers like you who call snippers nazis, just as you call yourself too stupid, and call the SNP bad. That's how weak the real arguments for indy are.

You are too stupid personally, but there's plenty of Scots with brains, brain enough to know that Greece has a smaller deficit than Scotland does.

Which means that iScotland would have to cut like Greece, worse than any tory.

That's what you favour, fucking over Scotland's poor, Scotland's unemployed, Scotland's unhealthy, and Scotland's pensioners. 

And yourself too, of course. You're welcome to castrate yourself with my blessing.

All this remains true until you tell us what you'll cut to the value of £9bn a year without impacting onto Scotland's worst-off.

[Comfy Bean]

Castrate myself ! Really ?

Edited April 3, 2017 by comfortablynumb1910

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Castrate myself ! Really ?

Yep.  You know, chop your own balls off.

By thinking you'll get something better than tories only to find out you'll get something far far worse than tories.

An iScotland that spends 27% more than its revenues (as it does) will HAVE TO cut like a tory on steriods, by much MUCH more than cuts tories will give Scotland.

Unless money falls from the sky like magic.

[gary1979666]

18 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

Castrate myself ! Really ?

Well, the SNHS won't be able to afford to fund such operations post Indy!   

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

Well, the SNHS won't be able to afford to fund such operations post Indy!   

True - the deficit is more than the total cost of the SNHS.

But hey, it's meaningless according to LJS, and while comfy says they'll be cuts he thinks they can be made without anyone noticing.

[Comfy Bean]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

True - the deficit is more than the total cost of the SNHS.

But hey, it's meaningless according to LJS, and while comfy says they'll be cuts he thinks they can be made without anyone noticing.

The snhs seems to be doing ok but of course could do better.

I think cuts and savings are already being identified and implemented. More will be required of course.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

The snhs seems to be doing ok but of course could do better.

I think cuts and savings are already being identified and implemented. More will be required of course.

They're defo not being implemented by the party that demands ever-more of Westminster - that you supported them about too. FFS.

£9Bn in cuts is about 15% of Scottish spending.

Will that be 15% off pensions, and 15% off benefit payments, and 15% off SNHS spending and 15% education, and 15% off the police and 15% off every other Scottish expense?

Or will be be closing all Scottish hospitals and many schools?

In the voice of big brother, YOU* decide.

But you never do. You pretend that cuts smaller than the cuts that Greece has made can be done painlessly.

[Comfy Bean]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Is that the new lie you're using on your countrymen?

Tho why you think Scots are more stupid than you are I've no idea.

I wasn't being overly serious about us invading Spain but I think my countrymen, as you put it , plus everyone else will have noticed without me having to point it out.

I disagreed with people like your good self about the lack of an early announcement on the Eu citizens who have made a life here. I disagreed but could understand the point about us entering negotiations. 

The Falklands stuff and the not so subtle comments around security surely don't sit well with you ?

Its only just started but the signals are there. My countrymen have also noticed that Labour voted with the Tories against the amendment to let Eu citizens vote in our upcoming referendum:-(

Fortunately the greens and snp had the numbers to get it through.

Not sure if you are aware but the good folks who have settled here from England will also have a say :-)

[Comfy Bean]

Just now, eFestivals said:

They're defo not being implemented by the party that demands ever-more of Westminster - that you supported them about too. FFS.

£9Bn in cuts is about 15% of Scottish spending.

Will that be 15% off pensions, and 15% off benefit payments, and 15% off SNHS spending and 15% education, and 15% off the police and 15% off every other Scottish expense?

Or will be be closing all Scottish hospitals and many schools?

In the voice of big brother, YOU* decide.

But you never do. You pretend that cuts smaller than the cuts that Greece has made can be done painlessly.

I don't think it will be painless.

I don't think all hospitals will close.

I do think you are being very silly.

[eFestivals]

a standard snippers myth that I love...

Some people on here appear to be under the delusion that the state called 'United Kingdom' would continue to legally exist after a Scots departure.

And no snipper ever puts people like these right, who don't hate the UK (snigger) but just keep on posting their glee at striking (what they wrongly think will be) death blows.

There's no anti-English hated in Scottish indy, oh no.

[eFestivals]

 

Quote

I disagreed with people like your good self about the lack of an early announcement on the Eu citizens who have made a life here. I disagreed but could understand the point about us entering negotiations. 

Yep, you disagreed with people like me and said it was c**tish but you never disagreed with the similarly c**tish EU doing the same.

It's almost like you're biased or something. :lol:

 

Quote

The Falklands stuff and the not so subtle comments around security surely don't sit well with you ?

You demand sovereignty, but you don't care for sovereignty? :lol:

I guess iScotland will be the world's first sovereign state that doesn't care for sovereignty.

 

Quote

Its only just started but the signals are there. My countrymen have also noticed that Labour voted with the Tories against the amendment to let Eu citizens vote in our upcoming referendum:-(

Did your countrymen also notice that Labour and the tories have a consistent approach to sovereignty, paying the bills, & citizenship, while the SNP do not?

About how EU citizens will, at the SNP's diktat (it's in the Indy white paper, which you'd know about if you'd ever bothered to read it), get a vote for holyrood before indy, but won't do after indy?

 

Quote

Fortunately the greens and snp had the numbers to get it through.

Yep, and the Scottish people don't count for shit in the eyes of the SNP and Greens.

 

Quote

Not sure if you are aware but the good folks who have settled here from England will also have a say :-)

Funny, cos you don't normally like the English having a say, and you'll ever reject democracy to reject the English's say.

Meanwhile if it wasn't for all the c**ty brexiters in a Scotland that supposedly doesn't have any brexiters we wouldn't be leaving the EU. .

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, comfortablynumb1910 said:

I don't think it will be painless.

How painful do you think it'll be?

Less painful than tory cuts or more painful than tory cuts?

Cos the tories have cut less from Scotland than the £9Bn of Barnett money that you vote in favour of cutting.