The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

29 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

Ps last I noticed, Cummings was still in a job.

and so would the Sturgeon sidekick if Sturgeon had had her way.  

Her chasing votes more than Spaffer isn't actually something to necessarily cheer, because the public sometimes don't know shit: see brexit, or the same unicorns and lies and flag-waving for indy.

In this case it was the better thing to do, but it's still a fail and not a victory, and her first instinct was identical to Spaffer's. 

If you want to take pride in shit, go ahead.

[Comfy Bean]

39 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I deny it because you're talking bollocks.  

What's going down here is false grievence. Talking bollocks about hatred of Scotland from England, because that's how much you have to stretch your victim complex.

 

WTF are you on about?

I've checked back. It never happened.

 

What do you base your think on? Facts please, not "I think she's lovely".

Is the death rate in Scotland significantly different over the crisis? Nope.

Did Sturgeon make a better job than Spaffer with the thing* where their actions alone make all of the difference: care homes? Nope, she fucked it up worse than Spaffer.
(* rather than a virus we still don't know much about)

Did Sturgeon's 'zero covid' plan work? Nope. Because it was always doomed to fail (which even i knew).

Did she deal with school exams better than Spaffer? Nope, same fuck-up.

Etc, etc, etc.

Nice smile tho. 

 

 

I never accused you of hating Scotland so why would I have any grievance about something you didn’t say. My issues were with what you did say and it’s got nowt to do with Sturgeon being Scottish 🤷‍♂️

Id guess you like most folk quite like Scotland. 

I’m glad we cleared up the bit about Cummings though 👍

 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

My issues were with what you did say

things I never said.  

 

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

Id guess you like most folk quite like Scotland.

I don't have much of an opinion either way. It's a place just like other places, with good bits and bad bits, and good people and not so good people.

(Shame it votes me-me-me with a higher proportion than England does)

I respect Scotland's right to choose indy or not - tho within limits (no neverendums) - but I wouldn't respect their choice for indy in the way it's being done with bullshit. Being just like a brexiter gets the same respect.

Edited September 26, 2020 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

I’m glad we cleared up the bit about Cummings though 👍

 

that Sturgeon thinks rules are for little people just like Spaffer? Yeah.

[LJS]

On 9/24/2020 at 8:52 AM, eFestivals said:

PMSL at a snipper reckoning others can't do maths.  

Scotland gets that extra 10% cos of the extra costs of doing business in Scotland. .... but this money has been support for *NOT* doing business, where there isn't an extra 10% cost.

Where's the money gone LJS? Perhaps ask St Nic? Perhaps it went on paying for the Salmond cover-up? 

you said Scotland got an extra £3.6m which you know isn't really true. Except in the sense that every part of the UK got extra billions. Its just that some of it is spent by westminster in England and by Holyrood in Scotland. You know this and you also know that Scotland always gets a bit more than its population share like Wales & Northern Ireland.  So Scotland's "extra" money is nowhere near the £3.6bn you said it was.

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

with no response by you or LJS foir where the money's gone, money that you like to think you've not had. Your bad before mine.  

 

no reponse eh?

On 9/24/2020 at 8:24 AM, LJS said:

The "extra" money enables Scotland to support businesses & give extra funding to the NHS similar to what the UK government is doing.   

 

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

if you don't have an issue with snipper, why do you think it effects the standard of debate? It's a neutral nickname - a play on SNP and the desire to separate - that's all.

I think derogatory nicknames are pretty childish. I don't think the constant use of them adds anything to the debate. I guess it makes the person using think they are being clever and funny.

and yes I'm sure there are examples where I have used them but as a general rule i try and avoid them. My new year resolution was to avoid calling our current PM by his first name as it makes him seem more human - almost one of our pals.

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

 

PMSL  

I haven't called her a poisoned dwarf.

Lots of pro-union folk do though. You seem to expect Me & Comfy to answer for the views of all "snippers" so I think its only fair that the same should apply to you 

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I've talked about "the party with a rapist and cover-up or the party that framed the ex leader", but notice the "or" in there.  I'm simply pointing out that the SNP must have done one or the other, which people like you don't like to talk about.

Apologies for stretching "attempted rape" into "rape".  Really, that just means not a very competent rapist.  

As I've said before, this is tittle-tattle and doesn't greatly interest me. All parties have had their share of real & alleged sex pests of various sorts. The one constant is that they generally don't deal with it well. 

For me, none of it makes any difference to Scotland's viability as an independent country.

I am surprised that the whole Salmond thing hasn't hurt the SNP more. Maybe it seems insignificant compared to a pandemic.

 

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

She's managed the PR and the political opportunities better, but as you say it's not a high bar.

A not-high-bar she hasn't jumped when dealing with the covid .

- she didn't call for anything different to happen than happened under Spaffer until after Spaffer's lockdown.

True - she decided that the right thing to do was to have one approach across the UK. I suspect there would have been the mother of all outcries if she had tried to lock down Scotland on its own but, hey, we'll never know. 

We will probably also never know what she was saying behind closed doors in meeting wth the other nations.

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

- she fucked up care homes worse than Spaffer, something within her *total* control.

This has been disputed. I have heard it said that care home deaths are reported differently in the 2 nations. With patients transferred from care homes to hospital who die, being recorded as hospital deaths in England and care home deaths in Scotland. I have also seen claims that excess deaths in care homes are higher in England than in Scotland. I genuinely do not know if these claims are true or not bot the bottom line is both governments messed up & arguing which was worse is a bit like arguing who is worse between Boyzone & Westlife.

I would also dispute the "total control" bit (on both sides of the border) The majority of car homes are privately run & not under the direct control of the government or run by local authorities not the government.

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

- she backed her rules-cheat no different to how Spaffer backed Cummings.

I was going to send you  dictionary to go with your maths book because you clearly don't understand the meaning of the phrase "no different" and the word "backed"

Comfy covered most of this but she did not "back her rules-cheat" She condemned her rules cheat unequivocally and sacked her when it was clear her position was untenable and keeping her would undermine the government's message. 

Incidentally, our "rules-cheat" didn't knowingly take Covid19 on a tour of the country. 

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

- she pursued a zero-covid plan to the extra-detriment of the Scottish economy and has (as of latest figures) ended up in a worse place than Spaffer.

I'm not quite clear what figures you are looking at but the last I saw, infection rates & deaths are still lower in Scotland than in England. They are not great by any measure but I'm not sure you can say they are worse.

I am interested to see that you now accept that she followed a different course, something you spent weeks denying. 

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

- her different rules have been more authoritarian without being significantly different in effect.

I think that is debateable.

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

- there's areas of England under Spaffer's rules managing covid more effectively, all the way thru.

and there are areas of Scotland that have done better than these areas of England. If we have to compare Scotland and England, I'm afraid you don't get to pick the best bits of England to compare with all of Scotland

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

- the (proportional) extra money available to her to deal with covid has made no noticeable difference to Scottish outcomes.

Scotland always gets proportionally more money - it has since the second world war (and possibly longer). There are lots of reason for this but it would be unusual if this suddenly made a huge difference in a few months of 2020.

58 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 Did Sturgeon's 'zero covid' plan work? Nope. Because it was always doomed to fail (which even i knew).

I think there is an argument that it was working. We were down to an average of under 10 cases a day in early July and less than one death per daya little later. It is certainly arguable that this was unsustainable when England was opening up at a faster rate - possibly not but we were not far away from it. 

58 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Did she deal with school exams better than Spaffer? Nope, same fuck-up.

Indeed but there are a couple of crucial differences.

1: Swinney & Sturgeon admitted they had fucked up and apologised. 

Williamson & Johnson refused to admit they got it wrong and tried to pin the blame on anyone else they could find.

2: Williamson & Johnson had the benefit of seeing what had happened in Scotland and bizarrely believed it would be different in England. 

 

58 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Etc, etc, etc.

Nice smile tho. 

 

 

She has not been smiling much lately.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

My new year resolution was to avoid calling our current PM by his first name as it makes him seem more human - almost one of our pals.

I would also dispute the "total control" bit (on both sides of the border) The majority of car homes are privately run & not under the direct control 

I don't think anyone does. "Alexander" is used almost as rarely as "de Pfeffel", its mostly one of his middle names that is used. 

On both sides of the border it was a govt decision to discharge patients from hospitals with covid into care homes. I would argue that's gross negligence from Westminster and Holyrood. 

[LJS]

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I don't think anyone does. "Alexander" is used almost as rarely as "de Pfeffel", its mostly one of his middle names that is used. 

You know what I mean!

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

On both sides of the border it was a govt decision to discharge patients from hospitals with covid into care homes. I would argue that's gross negligence from Westminster and Holyrood. 

I don't think there was a deliberate decision that patients with Covid should be moved from hospitals into care homes, although they clearly didn't do enough to prevent it. I don't think getting old folk out of hospital was in itself a bad idea -  and its hard to know where else they could have gone. I do agree that there was insufficient care (if any) taken to protect vulnerable old folk from the virus.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

You know what I mean!

I don't think there was a deliberate decision that patients with Covid should be moved from hospitals into care homes, although they clearly didn't do enough to prevent it. I don't think getting old folk out of hospital was in itself a bad idea -  and its hard to know where else they could have gone. I do agree that there was insufficient care (if any) taken to protect vulnerable old folk from the virus.

Pedantry? On the Internet? 

Whether it was deliberate or thoughtless, it was a bad decision and it was made by those in charge. Just because it was difficult doesn't excuse them from getting it wrong. 

[LJS]

39 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

 Whether it was deliberate or thoughtless, it was a bad decision and it was made by those in charge. Just because it was difficult doesn't excuse them from getting it wrong. 

I didn't think I was disagreeing. I was merely suggesting that the fuck up may have been slightly different from the way you'd stated it. 

[Comfy Bean]

14 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

 

I think it’s bad form calling Sturgeon a “ poisoned dwarf “ as you know but I’m not overly fussed if it makes you feel good 👍

 

 

12 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I haven't called her a poisoned dwarf.

Funnily enough, the only times that phrase is used is when you use it. Another of those false grievances (tho I bet you use far worse for Spaffer).

If you fantasise about not-happened grievances then Independence will not make you feel better about anything, you'll instead feel disappointed. Funnily enough, just like the brexiters will do.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

A bit like you denying you used the term separatists recently I’ll take the fact that your now denying the poisoned dwarf and rapist chat as some kind of a positive thing....in a roundabout way...but we both know what’s going down here.

I’m not checking back but would suggest you try that. It was a while back, not sure what thread but I remember we discussed it at the time and you mentioned your Mrs is short in a “ some of my best friends are black “ type of comeback 😂🙈

 

 

12 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I deny it because you're talking bollocks.  

What's going down here is false grievence. Talking bollocks about hatred of Scotland from England, because that's how much you have to stretch your victim complex.

WTF are you on about?

I've checked back. It never happened.

 

11 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

I never accused you of hating Scotland so why would I have any grievance about something you didn’t say. My issues were with what you did say and it’s got nowt to do with Sturgeon being Scottish .

 

 

11 hours ago, eFestivals said:

things I never said.  

 

 

On 10/25/2016 at 7:18 AM, eFestivals said:

Yep, but you wanted to win independence by lying that (in effect) it wouldn't disappear, because you and the poison dwarf claimed Scotland wouldn't be poorer without that money.

 

On 11/22/2016 at 7:59 AM, eFestivals said:

She's taller than my missus.

And she's poison..  

 

Oh dear....

[LJS]

The average height of Scottish women is 5ft 3½in.

Nichola Sturgeon is 5ft 4in.

Neil has an intellectual height of 3ft 2in.

Edited September 26, 2020 by LJS

[eFestivals]

19 hours ago, LJS said:

you said Scotland got an extra £3.6m which you know isn't really true.

correct. That was the amount much earlier in the crisis, and excludes heaps of money from furlough too.

What I was getting at is the 10% (proportional) extra over what England has had, and when covid was less embedded within Scotland too (so the costs of dealing with covid to Scotland are lower).

19 hours ago, LJS said:

no reponse eh?

yes, no response. 

I asked where the *extra* money has gone within that Scotland you claim is fucked over by 'England'. 

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

You seem to expect Me & Comfy to answer for the views of all "snippers" so I think its only fair that the same should apply to you 

One is a campaign that you're solidly aligned with.

The other are lies that Comfy keeps making about me personally.

Spot the difference? 

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

For me, none of it makes any difference to Scotland's viability as an independent country.

No one except the snippers talks about Scotland's viability as an independent country. Snippers like to shift the argument to avoid the real issues.  

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

I am surprised that the whole Salmond thing hasn't hurt the SNP more.

the cult is beyond reproach. Also see brexit, Corbyn, and Trump. 

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

This has been disputed.

By who?

Not by Sturgeon, who has specifically apologised for the care home fuck up without disputing the figures.

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

the bottom line is both governments messed up

My point entirely.

I was making comments back at Comfy who'd claimed Scottish exceptionalism.

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

I would also dispute the "total control" bit (on both sides of the border) The majority of car homes are privately run & not under the direct control of the government or run by local authorities not the government.

In England care homes receiving public funds were legally obliged to accept oldies being allocated to them from hospitals.

If it was different in Scotland that probably makes the fuck-up in Scotland worse than the numbers suggest.

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

and there are areas of Scotland that have done better than these areas of England. If we have to compare Scotland and England, I'm afraid you don't get to pick the best bits of England to compare with all of Scotland

the best bits of England are broadly similar to the best bits of Scotland. The worst bits of England are broadly similar to the worst bits of Scotland. Who knew?

Not comfy, who I was replying to.

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

Scotland always gets proportionally more money - it has since the second world war (and possibly longer). There are lots of reason for this but it would be unusual if this suddenly made a huge difference in a few months of 2020.

it's an extra boost of extra money. If it makes fuck all difference, why doesn't Scotland send it back? 

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

I think there is an argument that it was working.

it depends what the measure is. Sturgeon's stated aim - her own measure - was zero-covid. How's that doing today?  

Her plan has failed.

It was clearly always going to be a failure - I told you, remember? - while you were being suckered by Sturgeon's lies* and claiming exceptional Scotland from those lies.

(* or worse judgement than Spaffer, take your pick).

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

It is certainly arguable that this was unsustainable when England was opening up at a faster rate - possibly not but we were not far away from it. 

 - "if it wasn't for those English exceptional Scotland would be covid-free".  

 

19 hours ago, LJS said:

Indeed but there are a couple of crucial differences.

1: Swinney & Sturgeon admitted they had fucked up and apologised. 

Williamson & Johnson refused to admit they got it wrong and tried to pin the blame on anyone else they could find.

2: Williamson & Johnson had the benefit of seeing what had happened in Scotland and bizarrely believed it would be different in England. 

I'm defending nothing of Spaffer and co, I'm simply pointing out that exceptional Scotland can't better them in the part that actually matters. 

Anyway, seems like you agree that comfy was talking twaddle.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

I don't think there was a deliberate decision that patients with Covid should be moved from hospitals into care homes, although they clearly didn't do enough to prevent it. I don't think getting old folk out of hospital was in itself a bad idea -  and its hard to know where else they could have gone. I do agree that there was insufficient care (if any) taken to protect vulnerable old folk from the virus.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I doubt anyone disagrees either with what PT said, of it being gross negligence.

I was simply pointing out that unlike much of this crisis (because of the unknowns of covid), it was a policy area 100% within Spaffer's and Sturgeon's control.  

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Oh dear....

yep, oh dear.

You made a false claim, and you've just demonstrated that you did do. 

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

The average height of Scottish women is 5ft 3½in.

Nichola Sturgeon is 5ft 4in.

Neil has an intellectual height of 3ft 2in.

and snippers have a constant aversion to the facts.

I'm now betting that sentence of mine is beyond your comprehension. 

[Comfy Bean]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

yep, oh dear.

You made a false claim, and you've just demonstrated that you did do. 

Referring to Sturgeon as a poison dwarf is bad form in my opinion as you know.

You denied that you had used those words and accused me more than once of fabricating it  to create a false grievance.

Our poison dwarf exchange included more than I quoted but I didn’t see the need to cause further embarrassment.

You perhaps know this because you claimed to have checked back before again denying it.

Call her what you like. Your a grown man 🙂 just don’t accuse folk of making things up because it makes you look even sillier 🙂 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, Comfy Bean said:

Referring to Sturgeon as a poison dwarf is bad form in my opinion as you know.

because you love her.

 

1 hour ago, Comfy Bean said:

You denied that you had used those words and accused me more than once of fabricating it  to create a false grievance.

because I didn't use the words you accused me of using, and you've just clearly demonstrated.

 

1 hour ago, Comfy Bean said:

You perhaps know this because you claimed to have checked back before again denying it.

I denied it because I checked back and saw that I hadn't said it.

Check for yourself:-
https://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/search/?q="poisoned dwarf"&quick=1

 

[Comfy Bean]

Are we now floundering around over poison dwarf versus poisoned dwarf 😂

As I said, crack on as you see fit. 

I also wasn’t impressed with you calling Leanne Lewis from Plaid wee squeaky and also raised that at the time. These 2 public figures have something in common and one of them isn’t even Scottish 😉 

[Comfy Bean]

Because you love her 😂👍

[eFestivals]

18 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Are we now floundering around over poison dwarf versus poisoned dwarf 😂

I checked and answered what you said. What I said is 100% accurate.

Attention to detail is going to be important if iScotland isn't going to be a moron's fuck-up.

 

Quote

These 2 public figures have something in common and one of them isn’t even Scottish 😉 

In common is moronic flag waving backed by lies and brexit-brain morons cheering.

What's there's nothing in common with is your complaints about my constant use of Spaffer. Funny that, I wonder why.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by eFestivals

[LJS]

41 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I checked and answered what you said. What I said is 100% accurate.

Attention to detail is going to be important if iScotland isn't going to be a moron's fuck-up.

 

Thanks, Neil. You made me laugh on a grey Monday morning. 😂🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🤣

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Thanks, Neil. You made me laugh on a grey Monday morning. 😂🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🤣

nationalists always make me laugh.

Mainly for the lying audacity of the leaders, and the cult-like brains of the followers.

And yep, it's definitely followers. That's the really really fucking sad bit. 

[eFestivals]

I've just tuned into BBC Parliament, and laughed my arse off.

Firstly, the SNP have a Northern Ireland spokesperson. WTF?   ... why does a separatist nationalist party have an official view and intervene on the governance of a part of the state it wants to separate from...?  

And secondly, is demanding the Irish sea border is respected while claiming there won't be a Scottish/English border with it's plan to rejoin the EU (or EFTA, same thing with regards borders).   

[LJS]

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I've just tuned into BBC Parliament, and laughed my arse off.

Firstly, the SNP have a Northern Ireland spokesperson. WTF?   ... why does a separatist nationalist party have an official view and intervene on the governance of a part of the state it wants to separate from...?  

And secondly, is demanding the Irish sea border is respected while claiming there won't be a Scottish/English border with it's plan to rejoin the EU (or EFTA, same thing with regards borders).   

Fascinating.