The Dirty Independence Question

[lost]

Yes the project scotland app is based on the Irish one not the NHS one.

[kaosmark2]

15 minutes ago, lost said:

Yes the project scotland app is based on the Irish one not the NHS one.

What's the reasoning? 

[lost]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

What's the reasoning? 

As far as I can remember. NHSX said they would develop app. N.Ireland was more bothered about compatibility with the South and tracing on "the island of Ireland" so went their own way. When NHSX ran into issues and it was clear Irelands would be ready first Scotland jumped ship and bought that one. 

[kaosmark2]

7 minutes ago, lost said:

As far as I can remember. NHSX said they would develop app. N.Ireland was more bothered about compatibility with the South and tracing on "the island of Ireland" so went their own way. When NHSX ran into issues and it was clear Irelands would be ready first Scotland jumped ship and bought that one. 

Makes complete sense for NI. Not sure about Scotland, but it depends a bit on timescale I guess. 

[mcshed]

37 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

What is someone who lives and works on different sites of the England /Scotland "border" meant to do? 

Download both and switch between them at the border as they can't both be on at the same time. I've no idea if the same positive test code can then be used on both, I assume it can but I've not seen anything confirming it.

Is it Westminster's fault for cocking up the original development or Holyrood's for wanting to be different? We had it for an extra month, is that worth the current incompatibility?

[kaosmark2]

5 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Download both and switch between them at the border as they can't both be on at the same time. I've no idea if the same positive test code can then be used on both, I assume it can but I've not seen anything confirming it.

Is it Westminster's fault for cocking up the original development or Holyrood's for wanting to be different? We had it for an extra month, is that worth the current incompatibility?

I'd argue both? 

[mcshed]

15 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'd argue both? 

The take away message is as ever Vote Labour. (Can't face reminding himself of Scottish Labour's current polling position.)

[lost]

I'll probably be voting Labour but remembering the NHS IT project in the 2000's when we spent £10bn and delivered exactly nothing I really can't see things being any different. This whole covid thing has been a disaster from start to finish, mainly down to SAGE and I can't see the choice at the next election being anything other than austerity under the Tories, austerity under Labour or austerity under the SNP (with Westminster being blamed)

[kaosmark2]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

I'll probably be voting Labour but remembering the NHS IT project in the 2000's when we spent £10bn and delivered exactly nothing I really can't see things being any different. This whole covid thing has been a disaster from start to finish, mainly down to SAGE and I can't see the choice at the next election being anything other than austerity under the Tories, austerity under Labour or austerity under the SNP (with Westminster being blamed)

Austerity can be done without tax cuts for the rich though. In fact it's easier without them. 

[lost]

4 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Austerity can be done without tax cuts for the rich though. In fact it's easier without them. 

True, I don't see any tax cuts either though. Tax rises across the board along with cuts. What's the estimate for this years deficit is it something like £400bn?

[kaosmark2]

16 minutes ago, lost said:

True, I don't see any tax cuts either though. Tax rises across the board along with cuts. What's the estimate for this years deficit is it something like £400bn?

Yup. And it's only going to get worse once the full whack of redundancies hit over the next month. 

[viberunner]

On 10/2/2020 at 7:28 AM, eFestivals said:

while that's [Brexit destroying Scotland for generations to come] likely to be true, iScotland joining the EU will be an extra fuck-up on top of brexit, adding to the damage with no positives

Just to be clear, are you saying Scotland going Indy and joining the EU will be an "extra fuck-up on top of Brexit" for England, Scotland, or the EU? Or all three?

 

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, viberunner said:

Just to be clear, are you saying Scotland going Indy and joining the EU will be an "extra fuck-up on top of Brexit" for England, Scotland, or the EU? Or all three?

 

Scotland going Indy and joining the EU will be an "extra fuck-up on top of Brexit" for Scotland.

Because the damage from brexit is the new trade border.

So (if/)when iScotland creates a trade border with it's bigger trade partner to get no-border with it's much-smaller 3rd biggest customer (just 20% of the size), guess what? iScotland will be economically diminished.

Plus when the Scottish govt has 10% less money to spend on public services, guess what? iScotland will be economically diminished - and have austerity bigger than the tories ever gave Scotland.

Is indy honourable enough to admit this to the people of Scotland? Nope, its lies are as big as the brexit lies, while the damage of indy is far greater.

Edited October 7, 2020 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

PS: am loving how sovereignty-loving nationalists are bad and damaging to the country from the sovereignty-loving nationalists with an even-more damaging plan and even bigger lies.

Still, I guess Scotland is just as capable of voting stupid, but then it can't claim to be better, can it?

Most amusing of all is how England is deciding Scotland's choice. "The English made me do it". :lol: 

Edited October 7, 2020 by eFestivals

[gary1979666]

8 hours ago, viberunner said:

Just to be clear, are you saying Scotland going Indy and joining the EU will be an "extra fuck-up on top of Brexit" for England, Scotland, or the EU? Or all three?

 

I guess, to be clear, these are two separate events.....Scotland going Indy and Scotland joining the EU won't happen in close succession.

So first, Indy.  Can't see it being a great move economically in the first few years for Scotland (same reasoning as why Brexit isn't going to be great.  Won't be wonderful for rUK either, but the bigger impact on iScot.  EU, won't really care.

Scotland joining the EU.  Depends what agreements there are about the rUK border.  As for Indy to work as well as possible, you'll need pretty smooth trade with rUK.  But then to throw that back into the EU, the border issue becomes a problem again, so could impact iScot and UK again.  Imagine iScot won't be a net contributor to the EU either initially.  

So no really winners all round for the first 10 or so years in my arbitrary view.  Who knows longer term - maybe the Brexiters are right and we'll see a second wind of the British Empire and then Little British & Scotish exceptionalism will come to the fore.

But let's see how bad the Brexit fuck up turns out before we throw more crud into the melting pot.

 

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

Scotland joining the EU.

isn't going to be promised by Sturgeon, as it creates issues that will reduce a vote for indy - that English border, commitment to joining the Euro, forced reduction of Scottish govt expenditure, giving up fish, etc, etc, etc.

The best she'll promise is joining EFTA - which still has some of those problems, but not the currency problem.

It's not impossible that somewhere down the line an iScotland would switch from EFTA to the EU, but I suspect that once settled within EFTA that's how it'll stay.

19 minutes ago, gary1979666 said:

Imagine iScot won't be a net contributor to the EU either initially.  

there's some wacky claims going round snippers about this.

I even saw someone claim the EU will take money away from Poland & Hungry to give to Scotland, just because it's Scotland.  

[viberunner]

3 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

Can't see it being a great move economically in the first few years for Scotland (same reasoning as why Brexit isn't going to be great. 

Scotland joining the EU.  Depends what agreements there are about the rUK border.  As for Indy to work as well as possible, you'll need pretty smooth trade with rUK. 

As you say Brexit is going to bring pain, so much the clamour will be inescapable.

As for rUK, there is the Éire/Ulster border, EU and UK, but obviously looking for the smoothest possible cross border arrangement there, so there will be precedent. (The Irish Sea border isn't looking likely but time will tell).

[viberunner]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I even saw someone claim the EU will take money away from Poland & Hungry to give to Scotland, just because it's Scotland.  

Tony asks the right questions.

 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, viberunner said:

As you say Brexit is going to bring pain

and indy will bring extra pain on top of brexit.

3 minutes ago, viberunner said:

As for rUK, there is the Éire/Ulster border, EU and UK, but obviously looking for the smoothest possible cross border arrangement there, so there will be precedent. (The Irish Sea border isn't looking likely but time will tell).

there is no precedent, as there's no Scottish GFA.

And anyway, if England/iScotland-in-the-EU can have a border-free border, then England/any-part-of-the-EU can have the same borderless border, and then there's minimal economic effect from brexit and the snippers claim of the need to leave the UK because of brexit economic damage is a dead duck.

Your suggestion there is of a level the same as the brexiters. You know, utter bullshit. 

[viberunner]

A trade deal isn't necessarily the same as free trade (which is one type of deal).

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, viberunner said:

A trade deal isn't necessarily the same as free trade (which is one type of deal).

no shit sherlock.

Do you have a point?

[eFestivals]

19 hours ago, viberunner said:

As for rUK, there is the Éire/Ulster border, EU and UK, but obviously looking for the smoothest possible cross border arrangement there, so there will be precedent. (The Irish Sea border isn't looking likely but time will tell).

there is an international agreement lodged at the UN that sets the border arrangements on Ireland.

Care to show me any international agreements at all, lodged anywhere, that ælbə has? Oh, none at all. No precedent.

But just like the very worst of brexiters, the snippers talk utter laughable bollocks about borders.

Wrap yourself in the flag and talk bollocks. You and Farage.

[viberunner]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

no shit sherlock.

Do you have a point?

You post on an (what I took to be an) assumption that a free-trade deal was the default or required trade deal, I point out that's not the case and you say OF COURSE WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

My point is your posts need more words in order to be sensible.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, viberunner said:

You post on an (what I took to be an) assumption that a free-trade deal was the default or required trade deal, I point out that's not the case and you say OF COURSE WHAT'S YOUR POINT?

My point is your posts need more words in order to be sensible.

you're the guy who claimed iScotland-in-the-EU could have the same border arrangements as Ireland and the UK, and claimed there's a precedent for it.

I pointed out you're talking bollocks.

What's not sensible about that? (apart from your own idiot claim, obvs)

 

[viberunner]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Wrap yourself in the flag and talk bollocks. You and Farage.

Your country voted Brexit and you're the person who hates the idea of Scotland joining the EU.

We kicked Farage out of Scotland... your country destroyed my country on his behalf.