The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

18 hours ago, viberunner said:

I'm not Scottish and cannot be until after Independence (Scotland will offer, but not require, Scottish citizenship to rUK citizens who live in Scotland). I'm English though, thanks to too many of my "fellow" countrymen, it gives me little pride to say that.

Ahh, ok. Me, I don't find anything to be proud about in the luck of my conception.

And lucky old you, with your passport to escape the worse lifestyle you wish to impose on Scotland. 

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

Of course, all change brings risk with it. Those who deny this are not being realistic. However, when faced with opportunity to change, there are risks in not changing as well.

I pointed this out in 2016. 

I don't think I have been proved wrong.

Change certainly brings risk.

The problem here is that the rationale used for the risk of Brexit is the same rationale which should be applied to scindy but snippers refuse to apply it.

And that rationale says that scindy is damage on top of Brexit and larger than Brexit.

[viberunner]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

then the argument "Scotland is a country" isn't required. Care to take a guess at why he gave it? 

 

Any region is allowed to declare independence democratically. All countries are regions (e.g. Scotland) but not all regions are countries (e.g. Dorset).

[viberunner]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

But it's the UK govt which is always baaaaad.  

Correct. The England-dominated Westmonster is an undemocratic evil.

 

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And lucky old you, with your passport to escape the worse lifestyle you wish to impose on Scotland. 

True but not in the way you think. The moment we do get Independence I'll become a naturalised Scottish citizen and I'll withdraw my citizenship of "the UK / rUK".

And then my Scottish passport will be useful if I wish to live and work in the EU under freedom of movement rules.

[kaosmark2]

12 minutes ago, viberunner said:

Correct. The England-dominated Westmonster is an undemocratic evil.

Baaa

Baaa

England baaaad

[viberunner]

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

England baaaad

Boris Johnson? Theresa May? David Cameron? Nick Clegg? The attacks on disability welfare? Tuition fees? Brexit? etc. etc.

Yes. Certainly politically.

Going to Festivals in England is nice as you meet the small minority of English people who are not c**ts so don't take it personally.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, viberunner said:

Boris Johnson? Theresa May? David Cameron? Nick Clegg? The attacks on disability welfare? Tuition fees? Brexit? etc. etc.

Yes. Certainly politically.

Going to Festivals in England is nice as you meet the small minority of English people who are not c**ts so don't take it personally.

[viberunner]

An interesting picture of the Conservative Member of Parliament for Surrey Heath.

 

[eFestivals]

19 hours ago, viberunner said:

Any region is allowed to declare independence democratically. All countries are regions (e.g. Scotland) but not all regions are countries (e.g. Dorset).

there's a geezer called Willie in a tenement in Glasgow who wants his bedroom to be independent. Can it be? 

[eFestivals]

19 hours ago, viberunner said:

Correct. The England-dominated Westmonster is an undemocratic evil.

is it?

Just because it doesn't do things in your (or my) preferred way doesn't make it evil.

 

 

19 hours ago, viberunner said:

The moment we do get Independence I'll become a naturalised Scottish citizen and I'll withdraw my citizenship of "the UK / rUK".

except you can't, not in any meaningful way. It remains available to you forever.

 

19 hours ago, viberunner said:

And then my Scottish passport will be useful if I wish to live and work in the EU under freedom of movement rules.

get back to me if/when Scotland is an EU member. Me, I can't see it ever joining the EU.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. It still has to get the right to a vote and win that vote, both of which might never happen.

[eFestivals]

14 hours ago, viberunner said:

Boris Johnson? Theresa May? David Cameron? Nick Clegg? The attacks on disability welfare? Tuition fees? Brexit? etc. etc.

David Cameron - Scottish.
Gordon Brown - Scottish.
Tony Blair - Scottish
Michael Gove - Scottish
Etc, etc, etc.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, there are only countries where lots of the population hates their govt.

 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, viberunner said:

An interesting picture of the Conservative Member of Parliament for Surrey Heath.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[LJS]

50 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

there's a geezer called Willie in a tenement in Glasgow who wants his bedroom to be independent. Can it be? 

Ha, ha. It was only a matter of time.

That's my Neil's dirty indy bingo card complete now.

[mcshed]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

David Cameron - Scottish.
Gordon Brown - Scottish.
Tony Blair - Scottish
Michael Gove - Scottish
Etc, etc, etc.

I did find it amusing how much Tony Blair featured in pro-Indy ads during the referendum. I actually blurted out in the cinema once "He's fucking Scottish."

I don't think I'd call Cameron Scottish though.

[eFestivals]

24 minutes ago, LJS said:

Ha, ha. It was only a matter of time.

That's my Neil's dirty indy bingo card complete now.

Hey, there's supportive arguments for indy, and then there's lots of utter bollocks.

If someone champions the bollocks, I can't resist.  

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, mcshed said:

I don't think I'd call Cameron Scottish though.

there's certainly a decent argument for it - and a much better argument than lots of the arguments for indy.  

Edited October 12, 2020 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+people+misuse+logical+fallacies

He's a Scotsman but he's an English politician.

If I got elected to Parliament in the Netherlands I'd be a Dutch politician, but an Englishman.

[viberunner]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

David Cameron - Scottish.
Gordon Brown - Scottish.
Tony Blair - Scottish
Michael Gove - Scottish
Etc, etc, etc.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, there are only countries where lots of the population hates their govt.

David Cameron was born in London.

And as I was talking about the murder of austerity, which of course was an attack on the Blair/Brown domestic legacy of raising children out of poverty, etc.

[viberunner]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Just because it doesn't do things in your (or my) preferred way doesn't make it evil

Westmonster is evil not because it doesn't do what I want but because it does evil, actively and intentionally.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, viberunner said:

He's a Scotsman

 

[eFestivals]

In other Indy news, there's an interesting piece at the Guardian about currency options.....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/13/scotland-new-currency-independence-sterling-euro&ved=2ahUKEwim5LOK67HsAhXCmFwKHd7oCxsQjjgwAHoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2gvncjCDOSCIyqTkXB_Cg-

Same as back in 2014 none of them are without pain, but you'd think the SNP could actually make a decision over one six years later.

Then again, I'd say the comments underneath show why they haven't. It allows snippers to pretend there's easy and painless available in the many different uncredible options being suggested, most of which would mean Scotland never meeting the EU entry criteria.

It'll be interesting to see if Sturgeon commits to a path, or whether she'll go the vote leave way of promising everything to everyone before shafting the voters with something no one agreed to.

[LJS]

 

 

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

2 hours ago, LJS said:

 

 

 

 

Also a good day for our regions fitba team.

Exciting times 😀

[LJS]

5 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Also a good day for our regions fitba team.

Exciting times 😀

Yes indeed. Sitting on top of our Regions League group table. 

Who'd have thought it?

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

 

 

 

anyone got a poll for Scots who are dead keen to pay 10% more tax and have reduced lifestyles?

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by eFestivals