The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, LJS said:

That's exactly what I am saying. 

lol

[viberunner]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:25 AM, kaosmark2 said:

Are you seriously going to claim that you haven't seen Sturgeon and the SNP use any anti-English rhetoric over the last 10 years?

I'm English, live up here, have lived Edinburgh & Glasgow, and can say hand-on-heart I haven't: publicly or privately.

If you have some examples you would like to share with class please do so.

[viberunner]

On 11/5/2020 at 12:25 PM, LJS said:

That's exactly what I am saying.

You wait mate, it'll come to pass the boycotting of Farage in Edinburgh was Sassenachophobia.

(Despite the fact he's a Frog and the Scots love Frogs).

Edited November 7, 2020 by viberunner

[eFestivals]

13 hours ago, viberunner said:

I'm English, live up here, have lived Edinburgh & Glasgow, and can say hand-on-heart I haven't: publicly or privately.

If you have some examples you would like to share with class please do so.

 

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

 

First time you posted this, it was bullshit.

Second time you posted it ... Still bullshit.

Now a third try... Guess what Neil.... Yup still bullshit.

 

[eFestivals]

Just now, LJS said:

First time you posted this, it was bullshit.

Second time you posted it ... Still bullshit.

Now a third try... Guess what Neil.... Yup still bullshit.

 

Yeah, it's purely coincidence that Trump and Sturgeon blame covid on other countries, while even the heinous Spaffer doesn't do that. 

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Yeah, it's purely coincidence that Trump and Sturgeon blame covid on other countries, while even the heinous Spaffer doesn't do that. 

She doesn't "blame" covid on anyone.

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, LJS said:

She doesn't "blame" covid on anyone.

true, because she doesn't explicitly say it.

But dog whistles are never explicit, are they?  

[LJS]

28 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

true, because she doesn't explicitly say it.

But dog whistles are never explicit, are they?  

Fortunately, this dog whistle is at a frequency that only you can hear  

 

[viberunner]

Here's a thing, I came in here asking for evidence of the SNP's blatant racism against English people. For direct citations to SNP speeches, statements, tweets.

My response in full? An opinion tweet by a FUND MANAGER who isn't even a member of the SNP.

I think that speaks for itself. For all the longstanding English allegations of anti-English racism by the SNP our English detractors HAVE YET TO FIND A SINGLE FUCKING EXAMPLE!

 

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, viberunner said:

Here's a thing, I came in here asking for evidence of the SNP's blatant racism against English people. For direct citations to SNP speeches, statements, tweets.

here's a thing.

I point out dog whistling and people like you say it doesn't count as dog whistling unless it's explicit.

Funny how that's not how it works when Farage, Spaffer or Trump do their dog whistling, eh?  

 

Quote

My response in full? An opinion tweet by a FUND MANAGER who isn't even a member of the SNP.

so only the SNP can call out the SNP? Laughable. 

 

Quote

I think that speaks for itself. For all the longstanding English allegations of anti-English racism by the SNP our English detractors HAVE YET TO FIND A SINGLE FUCKING EXAMPLE!

 

 

Keep on drinking the kool aid and you'll never find a single example.

And you can keep on banging on about a fund manager isn't allowed an option, and non members of the SNP aren't allowed an opinion.

Cos that's how great the SNP democratic principles are.

Edited November 10, 2020 by eFestivals

[mcshed]

14 hours ago, viberunner said:

Here's a thing, I came in here asking for evidence of the SNP's blatant racism against English people. For direct citations to SNP speeches, statements, tweets.

My response in full? An opinion tweet by a FUND MANAGER who isn't even a member of the SNP.

I think that speaks for itself. For all the longstanding English allegations of anti-English racism by the SNP our English detractors HAVE YET TO FIND A SINGLE FUCKING EXAMPLE!

 

Personally I feel like anti-English sentiment is mostly a problem with SNP supporters than with the party itself, but this conversation came up in the thread due to the two examples of threatening to close the border and claiming COVID might have been eliminated if it weren't for reseeding.

A quick google of "SNP dog whistle" comes up with a handful of incidents over the last couple of years.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1887266/snp-accused-of-dog-whistle-nationalism-after-flyer-questions-scottishness-of-rivals/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/13/snp-brexit-minister-fire-dog-whistle-tweet-suggesting-scottish/amp/

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20191002/281775630895555

I'm sure historically you could find similar examples, none of these incidents taken  individually are a bid deal and in general I think those high up in the SNP know better than to play these games but it isn't just fantasy to worry about these sort of things.

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, mcshed said:

none of these incidents taken  individually are a bid deal and in general I think those high up in the SNP know better than to play these games

dog whistles are by definition on the sly, so that they have deniability.

With the video i posted, Sturgeon was trying to achieve two things. The first was to try and deny responsibility for the failure of her zero-covid policy, and the second was to suggest that Scotland's problems are caused by others (or 'the other') because that's the whole basis of the indy pitch (cos if Scotland's problems are internal indy improves nothing so why bother).

It was the perfect mix and match for her.

[viberunner]

9 hours ago, mcshed said:

A quick google of "SNP dog whistle" comes up with a handful of incidents over the last couple of years.

Some are paywall but here's one from the Daily Mail, reporting the architects of austerity:

 

Quote

John Waddell, who is standing for the Liberal Democrats in the seat, said: “why call into question the Scottishness of anyone?”

And the leaflet?

Quote

“If there is any chance of Scotland having a voice in Westminster, we must have an MP from a real Scottish party speaking for us.

This is true. The Lib Dems, Labour, and Tories are all main HQ'd in London and their Scottish departments are expected to follow the London-HQ line.

In fact, one of the main reasons we lose leaders of "Scottish" Tories and Labour is they dislike being reamed-from-behind from their own London HQs.

Edited November 10, 2020 by viberunner

[viberunner]

9 hours ago, mcshed said:

I'm sure historically you could find similar examples, none of these incidents taken  individually are a bid deal and in general I think those high up in the SNP know better than to play these games but it isn't just fantasy to worry about these sort of things.

Have you ever read Private Eye's "Rotten Boroughs"? It's full  of indents that should be headline news but never, ever are.

To me it was always fascinating to read about the misdeeds of local Kipper politician in the national press, then I'd read RB and think, "well, that's a thousand times fucking worse".

[viberunner]

12 hours ago, eFestivals said:

And you can keep on banging on about a fund manager isn't allowed an option

Look, Neil, stop being such a fucking liar mate? Okay?

I didn't say he wasn't "allowed" you utter disgrace man. I said his opinion isn't evidence.

[LJS]

11 hours ago, mcshed said:

Personally I feel like anti-English sentiment is mostly a problem with SNP supporters than with the party itself, but this conversation came up in the thread due to the two examples of threatening to close the border and claiming COVID might have been eliminated if it weren't for reseeding.

A quick google of "SNP dog whistle" comes up with a handful of incidents over the last couple of years.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/uk-politics/1887266/snp-accused-of-dog-whistle-nationalism-after-flyer-questions-scottishness-of-rivals/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/13/snp-brexit-minister-fire-dog-whistle-tweet-suggesting-scottish/amp/

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20191002/281775630895555

I'm sure historically you could find similar examples, none of these incidents taken  individually are a bid deal and in general I think those high up in the SNP know better than to play these games but it isn't just fantasy to worry about these sort of things.

 

There's a chap in Washington looking for folk who can build a case with such flimsy evidence.

[viberunner]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

There's a chap in Washington looking for folk who can build a case with such flimsy evidence.

The allegations in the US are looking to be somewhat more substantial than some media outlets are letting on. One of the best youtube laywers, a real laywer who reads through and explains court documents, filings, affidavits, discovery, etc., has done a pretty amazing job on the FIRST of the lawsuits.

Worth a watch, especially if you wish to be informed about the lawsuits that will be heard over the next days and weeks.

There was always a chance this election was going to be decided in the Supreme Court and that chance hasn't yet gone away.

 

[LJS]

6 minutes ago, viberunner said:

The allegations in the US are looking to be somewhat more substantial than some media outlets are letting on. One of the best youtube laywers, a real laywer who reads through and explains court documents, filings, affidavits, discovery, etc., has done a pretty amazing job on the FIRST of the lawsuits.

Worth a watch, especially if you wish to be informed about the lawsuits that will be heard over the next days and weeks.

There was always a chance this election was going to be decided in the Supreme Court and that chance hasn't yet gone away.

 

I take it that will be this lawsuit.

"A Michigan judge on Thursday dismissed a challenge from the Trump campaign to ballot counting in Michigan, saying local officials have already finished counting ballots cast in the Nov. 3 election and there is no legal basis or evidence to grant what the campaign requested."

https://eu.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/05/trump-michigan-lawsuit-ballot-counting-case-dismissed/6173871002/

Oh & Biden currently has a majority if 146,000 in Michigan. Does anyone with a brain cell really believe that a fraud on that scale was carried out?

Just because I agree with you on Scottish Independence does not stop me thinking you are batshit crazy if you are buying the Trumpian Conspiracy Bollocks going on in the USA just now.

& as for your claim that he is one of the "best youtube Lawyers!!!" I'm not quite sure who judges that but it doesn't seem to me to be a great claim to be making. Anyway, he appears to having given up the law to become a Trump apologist. (whilst conveniently making a fortune out of gullible fools who fall for his bullshit.

Sorry mate you're on your own with this one.

[viberunner]

46 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

Oh & Biden currently has a majority if 146,000 in Michigan. Does anyone with a brain cell really believe that a fraud on that scale was carried out?

 

Just because I agree with you on Scottish Independence does not stop me thinking you are batshit crazy if you are buying the Trumpian Conspiracy Bollocks going on in the USA just now.

& as for your claim that he is one of the "best youtube Lawyers!!!" I'm not quite sure who judges that but it doesn't seem to me to be a great claim to be making. Anyway, he appears to having given up the law to become a Trump apologist. (whilst conveniently making a fortune out of gullible fools who fall for his bullshit.

Sorry mate you're on your own with this one.

First, yes, frauds CAN be committed at scale. That doesn't mean it DID happen but to claim it CANNOT happen is wishful thinking.

Second, this is not MY conspiracy. I'm reporting the lawsuits not filing them. PS, a judge dismissing them in the US is not the real battle. The real battle was always going to be about the appeals process: can they get it to the Supreme Court?

Third, fair enough it's not a high bar there are some great ones who do publish. But I've been following him for a good while now and he's fucking good. A liberal Canadian as a Trump apologist? Are we entirely certain about the science of that? But you're wrong about his career, he's still a working lawyer and this is just his literal pennyjob side-show.

For example, Viva and his colleague explaining the backstory and legal process of McGirt vs Oklahoma where a Native American was acquitted of violently raping a (non-Native) child because they are not (as it was successful argued) subject to Oklahoma law. Most media outlets didn't touch it and the ones that did... didn't get it right. He explained why that appeal was right and why it was wrong for the state to prosecute as a State not Federal crime (as they could have) indeed shows it was a naked power-grab by the Oklahoma legislature.

He's a good lawyer and reading a filing doesn't make him partisan to it.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, viberunner said:

Look, Neil, stop being such a fucking liar mate? Okay?

I didn't say he wasn't "allowed" you utter disgrace man. I said his opinion isn't evidence.

and as evidence isn't dismissed by opinion, who' s the fucking liar?  

I've given you evidence. Deal with it, or shut the fuck up.

[viberunner]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I've given you evidence.

 

Let us refresh our memories of this evidence:

 

Quote

dog whistles are by definition on the sly, so that they have deniability

 

Oh, I almost forgot, you also included a banker's tweet.  Not even a fact-linking tweet. No. A tweet of opinion.

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, viberunner said:

Let us refresh our memories of this evidence:

 

You keep on pretending it's not there.

Why is that?

[LJS]

46 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

You keep on pretending it's not there.

Why is that?

4 times you've posted the same clip.

 

 

Still bullshit though.

Or maybe it's bullwhistle shit.

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

Still bullshit though.

is it? Why?

There's no need for anyone to be apportioning blame to other countries for covid. Few leaders have done that, but Trump and Sturgeon both have done. 

And they've both named countries they denigrate for their own political advantage, while not putting blame on the actions of their countrymen.

Those are the facts.