The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

is it? Why?

There's no need for anyone to be apportioning blame to other countries for covid.

I agree. She doesn't.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Few leaders have done that, but Trump and Sturgeon both have done. 

One of of two... Not too bad.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And they've both named countries they denigrate

She named England? Silly me. How did I miss that?

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

for their own political advantage, while not putting blame on the actions of their countrymen.

True. She doesn't blame anyone. 

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Those are the facts.

But not as we know them.

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, LJS said:

She named England? Silly me. How did I miss that?

"across the UK".

Care to remind me who is the SNP's sworn adversary, that they're desperate to leave?

 

Quote

True. She doesn't blame anyone. 

She says where (she says) it's "reseeded" from, and nothing about Scots reinfecting Scots in Scotland.

Funny how it's other people's fault (and not that her plan was always a crock of shit destined to fail).

 

Quote

But not as we know them.

Not as you know them, ever since you drank the kool aid.

Edited November 11, 2020 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

"across the UK".

Care to remind me who is the SNP's sworn adversary, that they're desperate to leave?

The opponent is the current constitutional arrangements of the union, not the people of the union.

And that's why they said it was reseeded by domestic travel within the UK - including Scots visiting England - an Indy Scot having control over the borders in a pandemic would have been able to suppress that travel just like New Zealand has.

And NZ is Covid free. Re-seeding has come from foreign travel so they quarantine everyone arriving in that country with only literal psychopaths that's RACIST rather than just a sensible measure in a pandemic.

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, viberunner said:

The opponent is the current constitutional arrangements of the union, not the people of the union

and that's where Sturgeon was laying the blame for covid in Scotland. 

7 minutes ago, viberunner said:

And that's why they said it was reseeded by domestic travel within the UK - including Scots visiting England

The UK was explicitly mentioned. Scots were not.

 

8 minutes ago, viberunner said:

an Indy Scot having control over the borders in a pandemic would have been able to suppress that travel just like New Zealand has.

that's a VERY bold claim. The situations are not comparable.

 

9 minutes ago, viberunner said:

Re-seeding has come from foreign travel

Yep. By Scots.

The things mentioned for blame were not Scots.

[viberunner]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

The UK was explicitly mentioned. Scots were not.

The UK. Yes. It's UK law that stopped Scotland closing the border for a firebreak.

And there we have it, if she mentions "the UK" this is evidence to Neil that she is racist against English people.

 

All I ask is during IndyRef 2 you let us repeat your claims as part of the SNP campaign. You alone could drive the YES vote up from 65% to 75%.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, viberunner said:

The UK. Yes. It's UK law that stopped Scotland closing the border for a firebreak.

The entire reason Wales and Scotland have called it a "firebreak" is to differentiate from Starmer and English scientists calling it a "circuit-break".

Also, considering that Wales did have one, and have less devolution powers than Holyrood, you'll have to explain how that works?

[LJS]

30 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

The entire reason Wales and Scotland have called it a "firebreak" is to differentiate from Starmer and English scientists calling it a "circuit-break".

Except Scotland didn't call it a firebreak.

30 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Also, considering that Wales did have one, and have less devolution powers than Holyrood, you'll have to explain how that works?

Yeah, I think Viberunner is wrong here. What would stop Scotland closing the border (if it wanted to, which is far from clear) is the hysterical reaction & accusations of xenophobia if it's even mentioned as a vague possibility.

 

[viberunner]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

Yeah, I think Viberunner is wrong here. What would stop Scotland closing the border (if it wanted to, which is far from clear) is the hysterical reaction & accusations of xenophobia if it's even mentioned as a vague possibility.

 

Well yes, the political backlash would be severe. There would also be the technical challenges... that's a huge and porous border.

 

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

The entire reason Scotland have called it a "firebreak" is to differentiate from Starmer and English scientists calling it a "circuit-break".

As LJS has said "firebreak" wasn't said, indeed you cannot get clearer than "circuit breaker" is the SNP's term.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18775014.nicola-sturgeon-expected-impose-circuit-breaker-restrictions-friday/

 

 

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, viberunner said:

The UK. Yes. It's UK law that stopped Scotland closing the border for a firebreak.

yeah, I was being deafened by Sturgeon keep banging on to scots about how they shouldn't leave the country. :lol: 

Jeez. Your bullshit is never ending.

 

11 hours ago, viberunner said:

And there we have it, if she mentions "the UK" this is evidence to Neil that she is racist against English people.

ity was blame for covid in Scotland onto the UK and not Scotland. What are you finding difficult about Sturgeon's words?

 

11 hours ago, viberunner said:

All I ask is during IndyRef 2 you let us repeat your claims as part of the SNP campaign. You alone could drive the YES vote up from 65% to 75%.

And "England doesn't send Scotland money" has driven it up above 50%. Who's lying to punch their countrymen in the face? :lol:

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

What would stop Scotland closing the border (if it wanted to, which is far from clear) is the hysterical reaction & accusations of xenophobia if it's even mentioned as a vague possibility.

you don't think Scots would kick off, with lots of "how dare you stop me going on holiday"?  Or are you thinking all Scots are pussies who'll follow every command of any politician?

And there we have another example of that xenophobia thing - direct onto the page from LJS - where Scotland's inaction is only the fault of those outside Scotland. Those perfect Scots, eh?  

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, viberunner said:

 

Well yes, the political backlash would be severe. There would also be the technical challenges... that's a huge and porous border.

oh, so now you you recognise you posted glorious-Scotland bollocks above, when you claimed that Sturgeon would be Jacinda if it wasn't for those those pesky English.

Glad we've cleared that one up, anyway.  

 

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

you don't think Scots would kick off, with lots of "how dare you stop me going on holiday"?  Or are you thinking all Scots are pussies who'll follow every command of any politician?

And there we have another example of that xenophobia thing - direct onto the page from LJS - where Scotland's inaction is only the fault of those outside Scotland. Those perfect Scots, eh?  

care to point out where i mentioned "those outside Scotland"

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, LJS said:

care to point out where i mentioned "those outside Scotland"

you're suggesting that you and other snippers would be calling the SNP xenophobic....?  

[LJS]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

you're suggesting that you and other snippers would be calling the SNP xenophobic....?  

Nope. Wrong yet again.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

Nope. Wrong yet again.

Why am I not surprised?  

Back to what you posted, what would stop Scotland closing its borders (if it wanted to) is Scots demanding a right to travel, and the huge amount of cross-border trade without which the Scottish economy dies. *Real* Scottish needs, and nothing to do with what you said. 

 

[LJS]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Why am I not surprised?  

Back to what you posted, what would stop Scotland closing its borders (if it wanted to) is Scots demanding a right to travel, and the huge amount of cross-border trade without which the Scottish economy dies.

Yup, it would be really difficult and you will note that I have never advocated it. 

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

*Real* Scottish needs, and nothing to do with what you said. 

 

When it has been raised as a possibility (never directly by the SNP - but they always get asked about it) the main shrieks of outrage have been based on accusations of xenophobia or "driving a wedge between Scotland & England" 

Just for clarity, most of the aforementioned shrieks have come from Scots in Scotland not from English Basterts.

[kaosmark2]

10 hours ago, viberunner said:

As LJS has said "firebreak" wasn't said, indeed you cannot get clearer than "circuit breaker" is the SNP's term.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18775014.nicola-sturgeon-expected-impose-circuit-breaker-restrictions-friday/

Nice edit. Particularly after you're the one who used that term. 

[viberunner]

5 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Nice edit. Particularly after you're the one who used that term. 

Until this thread I saw the terms as synonymous.

Until this thread I had no idea someone would try to, in-effect, racialise the fact there are different terms.

[zahidf]

Xmas has come early for the SNP

 

[kaosmark2]

Just going to leave this video here:

 

...

[eFestivals]

I'm loving the £500 'gift from Scotland' to Scottish health workers. It's a nice touch but it's very definitely not about the nice touch.

It's about the challenge to the UK to not tax it, via which Sturgeon can't fail to look good and she hopes the UK makes itself look bad.

While everyone misses that that Sturgeon is actually trying to get the UK to pick up 20%+ of the cost of this gift while claiming it as only-Scottish.   

Edited December 1, 2020 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm loving the £500 'gift from Scotland' to Scottish health workers. It's a nice touch but it's very definitely not about the nice touch. It's about the challenge to the UK to not tax it, via which Sturgeon can't fail to look good and she hopes the UK makes itself look bad.

Well, UK taxation which includes Scottish money was pissed away on this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/01/matt-hancock-under-pressure-to-explain-30m-test-tube-work-for-ex-neighbour

Uh, it's not "the UK" that will look bad. This isn't about Northern Ireland. Or Wales. The fuckwittery is England's Tories as opposed by England's Labour (currently not bothering to be a real opposition as they're too busy fighting an internal race war).

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, viberunner said:

Well, UK taxation which includes Scottish money was pissed away on this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/01/matt-hancock-under-pressure-to-explain-30m-test-tube-work-for-ex-neighbour

who knew that govts piss money up the wall? I refer you to the Scottish govts defence of Salmond's case against them.  

 

1 minute ago, viberunner said:

Uh, it's not "the UK" that will look bad. This isn't about Northern Ireland. Or Wales. The fuckwittery is England's Tories as opposed by England's Labour (currently not bothering to be a real opposition as they're too busy fighting an internal race war).

It's not the UK who will look bad if the UK doesn't subsidise Sturgeon's giveaway? Really?  

I can't wait for the deafening silence from snippers if they do tax it, then.  

[eFestivals]

PS: Sturgeon could have expected Scots to pay tax, same as everyone is expected to pay tax on income.

Or, alternatively, she could have also gifted the tax due on the £500 along with that £500.

But nope. She decided to go for divisive by challenging the UK govt to give Scotland some extra money.

[mcshed]

44 minutes ago, viberunner said:

England's Labour (currently not bothering to be a real opposition as they're too busy fighting an internal race war).

You are always very forthright about Labour antisemitism  I would like to hear your thoughts on Neale Hanvey MP being voted onto the SNP's Member Conduct Committee?