The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

On 12/1/2020 at 12:34 PM, mcshed said:

You are always very forthright about Labour antisemitism  I would like to hear your thoughts on Neale Hanvey MP being voted onto the SNP's Member Conduct Committee?

Well unless you believe people should be suspended for life, I'm ok with it.

"During his suspension from the SNP, Hanvey was advised by the Antisemitism Policy Trust (APT) and attended several APT activities in Parliament. He also met with the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities to apologise in person and thank them for their "generosity of spirit and willingness to help" during this time."

"Neale Hanvey - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neale_Hanvey

 

[mcshed]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

Well unless you believe people should be suspended for life, I'm ok with it.

"During his suspension from the SNP, Hanvey was advised by the Antisemitism Policy Trust (APT) and attended several APT activities in Parliament. He also met with the Scottish Council of Jewish Communities to apologise in person and thank them for their "generosity of spirit and willingness to help" during this time."

"Neale Hanvey - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neale_Hanvey

 

I don't think people should be suspended for life, I do wonder if Member Conduct is the best role for someone with a history of thoughtless posting but yes it isn't a huge deal. I'm just aware that viberunner is very outspoken about antisemitism in the Labour party and was wondering if the quick turn around met with his stricter standards or not.

[LJS]

5 hours ago, mcshed said:

I don't think people should be suspended for life, I do wonder if Member Conduct is the best role for someone with a history of thoughtless posting

I have only heard of 2 posts, which is a pretty short history. There may be more - I don't follow these things terribly closely.

And perhaps someone who was censured, apologised, accepted his punishment & did something constructive about it is perfect for such a role.

On the other hand, he may be a total dick. I don't know him.

5 hours ago, mcshed said:

 

but yes it isn't a huge deal. I'm just aware that viberunner is very outspoken about antisemitism in the Labour party and was wondering if the quick turn around met with his stricter standards or not.

Viberunner is very outspoken about many things and I wouldn't dream of trying to guess what he makes of this

 

[viberunner]

On 12/2/2020 at 2:40 PM, mcshed said:

I don't think people should be suspended for life, I do wonder if Member Conduct is the best role for someone with a history of thoughtless posting but yes it isn't a huge deal. I'm just aware that viberunner is very outspoken about antisemitism in the Labour party and was wondering if the quick turn around met with his stricter standards or not.

Quick turnaround? He spent six months suspended, for two posts, during which he took anti-antisemitism courses, and has repeatedly, prominently, unambiguously and profusely apologised. The quick party suspension showed the SNP party was not tolerating antisemitism and his profuse - accepted by Jewish leaders - apology stands in very stark contrast to the masses of shameless Labour antisemitism and their repeated refusal to tackle it; indeed it was rejected as "overstated for political purposes by our enemies in the party and in the press".

Certainly I think it would go a very long way to healing the party's reputation for racism if the Labour antisemites were suspended for six months during which they took courses on anti-antisemitism and made the same sorts of profuse apologies Neale did. But they won't.  And that's not a trivial point to make. The antisemites in the Labour party are clinging to it, the right to libel, slander, and bully Jews being a worthy moral hill to die on - and the Labour leadership haven't even BEGUN to tackle any of it.

[mcshed]

2 hours ago, viberunner said:

Quick turnaround? He spent six months suspended, for two posts, during which he took anti-antisemitism courses, and has repeatedly, prominently, unambiguously and profusely apologised. The quick party suspension showed the SNP party was not tolerating antisemitism and his profuse - accepted by Jewish leaders - apology stands in very stark contrast to the masses of shameless Labour antisemitism and their repeated refusal to tackle it; indeed it was rejected as "overstated for political purposes by our enemies in the party and in the press".

Certainly I think it would go a very long way to healing the party's reputation for racism if the Labour antisemites were suspended for six months during which they took courses on anti-antisemitism and made the same sorts of profuse apologies Neale did. But they won't.  And that's not a trivial point to make. The antisemites in the Labour party are clinging to it, the right to libel, slander, and bully Jews being a worthy moral hill to die on - and the Labour leadership haven't even BEGUN to tackle any of it.

By May of 2016 the Labour Party had suspended 1 MP, 5 Councillors and 50 members for antisemitism, the idea that the party ignored this is simply false.  

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, viberunner said:

Quick turnaround? He spent six months suspended, for two posts, during which he took anti-antisemitism courses, and has repeatedly, prominently, unambiguously and profusely apologised. The quick party suspension showed the SNP party was not tolerating antisemitism and his profuse - accepted by Jewish leaders - apology stands in very stark contrast to the masses of shameless Labour antisemitism and their repeated refusal to tackle it; indeed it was rejected as "overstated for political purposes by our enemies in the party and in the press".

Certainly I think it would go a very long way to healing the party's reputation for racism if the Labour antisemites were suspended for six months during which they took courses on anti-antisemitism and made the same sorts of profuse apologies Neale did. But they won't.  And that's not a trivial point to make. The antisemites in the Labour party are clinging to it, the right to libel, slander, and bully Jews being a worthy moral hill to die on - and the Labour leadership haven't even BEGUN to tackle any of it.

also see: the nutters in the SNP that are never dealt with.

And unlike Labour with antisemitism, the SNP love a dog whistle.

Edited December 31, 2020 by eFestivals

[LJS]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

also see: the nutters in the SNP that are never dealt with.

And unlike Labour with antisemitism, the SNP love a dog whistle.

Neil: finishing 2020 with the return of the dog whistle that only he can hear.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

Neil: finishing 2020 with the return of the dog whistle that only he can hear.

Because you've never heard it claimed by the SNP that Scotland's problems are caused by somewhere outside of Scotland, right? lol

[LJS]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Because you've never heard it claimed by the SNP that Scotland's problems are caused by somewhere outside of Scotland, right? lol

They would certainly argue that Scotland hasn't been best served by Westminster governments over the years. But I have a funny feeling that wasn't what you meant: of course you've tried before with this line & just been made to look silly. Its a bit like all your "Blood & Soil" nonsense, isn't it?

There are many areas where the SNP's position & record can legitimately be questioned but in my experience only desperate twitter loons (& you) pick racism as one. 

[eFestivals]

14 hours ago, LJS said:

They would certainly argue that Scotland hasn't been best served by Westminster governments over the years.

They certainly do, but not getting your own way on everything isn't necessarily that. And if it's not, then ultimately it's that dog whistle. 

14 hours ago, LJS said:

Its a bit like all your "Blood & Soil" nonsense, isn't it?

*YOUR* blood and soil nonsense, and Sturgeon's too.

Where it's unacceptable to you or the SNP for just the parts of Scotland that are pro-indy to join a potential indy Scotland. Because "Scotland is a country" (something created only in blood and soil) and not because of self-determination or democratic consent.

(meanwhile, Sturgeon demanded that just the parts* of the UK that voted for brexit should get brexit, demonstrating without doubt that her angle is a blood and soil Scotland and rejection of the democratic vote of Scots driven by an irrational hatred).

(* parts defined by her, where the part she cares about is that indivisible blood and soil Scotland)

14 hours ago, LJS said:

There are many areas where the SNP's position & record can legitimately be questioned but in my experience only desperate twitter loons (& you) pick racism as one. 

English flag waving = nasty anti-Scotland little England sentiment

Scottish flag waving = lovely wonderful generous Scots.

Those are your own sentiments. Are you really so blind?

Edited January 1, 2021 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

On 12/31/2020 at 1:54 PM, eFestivals said:

Because you've never heard it claimed by the SNP that Scotland's problems are caused by somewhere outside of Scotland, right? lol

That's a statement and a wholly accurate one. It's not a dog-whistle the SNP hate your tinkywinky.

[viberunner]

On 1/1/2021 at 9:05 AM, eFestivals said:

English flag waving = nasty anti-Scotland little England sentiment

Cite the SNP claiming this.

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, viberunner said:

Cite the SNP claiming this.

Even tho you live in Scotland the Scots don't (won't?) talk to you, do they...? 

lol

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by eFestivals

[viberunner]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:58 AM, eFestivals said:

Even tho you live in Scotland the Scots don't (won't?) talk to you, do they...?

Can anyone in the audience decipher this gibberish?

 

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, viberunner said:

Can anyone in the audience decipher this gibberish?

 

you been reading the 2014 white paper again?

 

[kaosmark2]

What's happening with the latest in the Salmond/Sturgeon feud?

[LJS]

2 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

What's happening with the latest in the Salmond/Sturgeon feud?

Eck is demonstrating that his ego is more important to him  than the cause which was supposedly his life's work.

[kaosmark2]

27 minutes ago, LJS said:

Eck is demonstrating that his ego is more important to him  than the cause which was supposedly his life's work.

Looks that way. Also pretty damning of Sturgeon though:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-alex-salmond-s-submission-to-the-hamilton-inquiry

[LJS]

4 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Looks that way. Also pretty damning of Sturgeon though:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-alex-salmond-s-submission-to-the-hamilton-inquiry

Really? By recent standards in UK politics, I'd say Sturgeon is a beacon of truth & integrity.

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, LJS said:

Really? By recent standards in UK politics, I'd say Sturgeon is a beacon of truth & integrity.

Didn't she claim to forget a meeting where Salmond was accused of harassment?

[LJS]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Didn't she claim to forget a meeting where Salmond was accused of harassment?

yeah - she was 3 days out. 

As I say, current standards of truth & decency in the UK don't appear to be particularly high and as I have previously said in relation to this, the first instinct of politicians of all parties is damage limitation, not truth or justice.

I'm not saying its great. I'm just saying that's the way it is. 

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, LJS said:

Really? By recent standards in UK politics, I'd say Sturgeon is a beacon of truth & integrity.

lol

More of that Scottish exceptionalism.

Long long ago, even you used to admit that she's a politician. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

yeah - she was 3 days out. 

no, not that. 

She totally 'forgot' about a meeting, and claimed one 3 days later was the first meeting when it was the 2nd. 

Which is a bit different to merely getting a date wrong. Slightly odd how you didn't know.

 

Quote

As I say, current standards of truth & decency in the UK don't appear to be particularly high and as I have previously said in relation to this, the first instinct of politicians of all parties is damage limitation, not truth or justice.

oh, you've remembered again that she's a politician. 

cos your memory is going, that's someone who's lying to you. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

no, not that. 

She totally 'forgot' about a meeting, and claimed one 3 days later was the first meeting when it was the 2nd. 

Which is a bit different to merely getting a date wrong. Slightly odd how you didn't know.

 

oh, you've remembered again that she's a politician. 

cos you're memory is going, that's someone who's lying to you. 

Yes it was the completely forgetting the meeting I was talking about. Just didn't seem credible as an honest mistake.

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

when it was the 2nd

correction: it was actually the 3rd.