The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Vo.tes fo.r a party that mirror the worst  of Spaffer.

The worst of Spaffer. One of my favourite albums.

[Comfy Bean]

27 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Vo.tes fo.r a party that mirror the worst  of Spaffer.

I’m saying, maybe the Scottish Tory Unionist Party will secure a win and a significant majority up here as well. Let’s wait and see.

[eFestivals]

What ever happened to Nicola giving dates for her indy plans she's gone quitet election victory Willbe a mandate for nothing.

[LJS]

59 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

What ever happened to Nicola giving dates for her indy plans she's gone quitet election victory Willbe a mandate for nothing.

 

Quote

 

The Scottish government has published draft legislation for the holding of a second independence referendum.

It wants to hold indyref2 after the pandemic but "in the first half of the new parliamentary term".

The SNP says it will attempt to pass the bill if May's election returns a majority of MSPs who back independence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56482881

 

 

putting exact dates on it might seem a tad presumptuous while we are in the middle of a pandemic 

[kaosmark2]

16 hours ago, LJS said:

I've answered your question.

Frankly, I don't really care what you want to hear.

I have done that. I haven't named civil servants but clearly there are questions over Leslie Evans' position.

Not really quite sure what political world you live in. The reasons you give for political resignations are exactly how it works in the real world, except in Westminster (sorry I know I'm not allowed to mention that) where resignation is no longer a thing.

I don't care who resigns or who stays. I care that the lessons are learnt and the same mistakes aren't made again. 

And the mistakes are nothing to do with whether a meeting took place on a  Thursday or the next Tuesday, or whether the government pursued a flawed legal case a little longer than was justified. The mistakes that matter are to do with the way allegations of misconduct are handled including how victims are treated.

The Scottish government have committed to making changes, a fact which has almost been lost in the demented witch hunt of Sturgeon. 

I like her. I rate her as a leader. 

You guys don't. 

C'est la vie.

"I take it you mean x" no I don't, "John Swinney hasn't covered himself in glory" isn't answering my question. You said it was an interesting question, and have, in about 10 posts on the topic since, given Gove-esque diversionary answers.

I understand that political resignations are to do with sacrificing as necessary, and in a world with the country run by a cabinet full of corrupt Tories who lie their way out of crises, that many resignations that should happen out of base principle, don't. As PT says though, you've repeatedly claimed the SNP are better than other politicians. I think their handling of this has shown them to be similar to the Tories, and that even if they're marginally better, "marginally better than Johnson's Tories" is something to be ashamed of.

 

There are politicians I like and rate. If I found them to be doing something I disapproved of that would shift my opinion for the worse. If I considered them involved in covering up a sexual harassment scandal, I would stop liking and rating them. I'm not convinced there's anything that Sturgeon could do to lose your support, hence comparisons to the likes of Corbyn or Trump.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

"I take it you mean x" no I don't, "John Swinney hasn't covered himself in glory" isn't answering my question. You said it was an interesting question, and have, in about 10 posts on the topic since, given Gove-esque diversionary answers.

I understand that political resignations are to do with sacrificing as necessary, and in a world with the country run by a cabinet full of corrupt Tories who lie their way out of crises, that many resignations that should happen out of base principle, don't. As PT says though, you've repeatedly claimed the SNP are better than other politicians. I think their handling of this has shown them to be similar to the Tories, and that even if they're marginally better, "marginally better than Johnson's Tories" is something to be ashamed of.

 

 

Spafferwouldnt face the issues with Brexit head on because brexit wasmore important than the truth. Theres the same issue withrhe snp and indy. 

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

There are politicians I like and rate. If I found them to be doing something I disapproved of that would shift my opinion for the worse. If I considered them involved in covering up a sexual harassment scandal, I would stop liking and rating them. I'm not convinced there's anything that Sturgeon could do to lose your support, hence comparisons to the likes of Corbyn or Trump.

Some peiple have drunk gallons of the kiol aid. Mass suicide is the only way out. 

[kaosmark2]

48 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Mass suicide is the only way out. 

I see your estimation of how much of an act of self-harm Scottish indy would be has risen again 😛 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, kaosmark2 said:

I see your estimation of how much of an act of self-harm Scottish indy would be has risen again 😛 

No that's about the delusion of its supporters.its very Jim Jones.

Edited March 25, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

5 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

"I take it you mean x" no I don't, "John Swinney hasn't covered himself in glory" isn't answering my question. You said it was an interesting question, and have, in about 10 posts on the topic since, given Gove-esque diversionary answers.

I understand that political resignations are to do with sacrificing as necessary, and in a world with the country run by a cabinet full of corrupt Tories who lie their way out of crises, that many resignations that should happen out of base principle, don't. As PT says though, you've repeatedly claimed the SNP are better than other politicians. I think their handling of this has shown them to be similar to the Tories, and that even if they're marginally better, "marginally better than Johnson's Tories" is something to be ashamed of.

 

There are politicians I like and rate. If I found them to be doing something I disapproved of that would shift my opinion for the worse. If I considered them involved in covering up a sexual harassment scandal, I would stop liking and rating them. I'm not convinced there's anything that Sturgeon could do to lose your support, hence comparisons to the likes of Corbyn or Trump.

We clearly disagree on the seriousness of the Sturgeon and the Scottish government's offences and the necessity for heads to roll. Just as you think I'm predisposed to cut them some slack, I am entitled to think that you (& certain others on here) are over keen to find fault and condemn.

In don't believe I have held the SNP up as some sort of paragons of virtue. Indeed, I have often commented that they are politicians & do politics - just as all politicians do.

I certainly think they are better than the Tories but I agree that is not seeing the bar very high.

Here is an interview with one of the people to have come out of this sort affair with any credibility: Andy Wightman. He certainly doesn't let Scotgov off the hook, take about the need for accountability but not necessarily resignations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09bql6j 

Polls look as if they are moving back SNP/Yes's way.

 

 

 

 

[pink_triangle]

LJS I heard a labour MSP claiming the SNP were holding important meetings without taking minutes. Is this true or party political distortion of the facts.

[LJS]

37 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

LJS I heard a labour MSP claiming the SNP were holding important meetings without taking minutes. Is this true or party political distortion of the facts.

Absolutely no idea. 

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

We clearly disagree on the seriousness of the Sturgeon and the Scottish government's offences and the necessity for heads to roll. Just as you think I'm predisposed to cut them some slack, I am entitled to think that you (& certain others on here) are over keen to find fault and condemn.

In don't believe I have held the SNP up as some sort of paragons of virtue. Indeed, I have often commented that they are politicians & do politics - just as all politicians do.

I certainly think they are better than the Tories but I agree that is not seeing the bar very high.

Here is an interview with one of the people to have come out of this sort affair with any credibility: Andy Wightman. He certainly doesn't let Scotgov off the hook, take about the need for accountability but not necessarily resignations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09bql6j 

Polls look as if they are moving back SNP/Yes's way.

I think in both cases, it's partially reactionary to the extremes of others. You over-praise because you think they're always criticised, I over-criticise because I think you (collective) over-praise.

My personal assessment, is that I think Sturgeon's SNP are about on par with Cameron's coalition government. They're shitty, they're obnoxious, but in a standard-level of politician being twattish and self-serving with a degree of idealism that's still detached from day-to-day problems of the average person. There is some desire to improve things, but it's not the biggest priority and the other problems outweigh the positives.

12 years ago, I was very ambivalent on the idea of Scottish independence, I felt it would be a bad idea economically, but it was a thing that was justifiable to ask for/demand if that was the true "will of the people". What's changed in that time, is that the leading figures of the campaign for it have built their support on deceit, nationalistic othering, and attempts at claiming superiority over other politicians. All of that is obnoxious and false, and I don't like seeing that type of politician succeed.

"Better than Johnson's Tories", is, to me, irrelevant. It's like saying a country is "less totalitarian than North Korea". Technically true, but with such a low expectation that it's not worth considering anyway. The current lot are absolutely atrocious, and in a way that puts the Tory party of the last 80 years to shame, let alone everything else.

[mcshed]

10 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

LJS I heard a labour MSP claiming the SNP were holding important meetings without taking minutes. Is this true or party political distortion of the facts.

 

9 hours ago, LJS said:

Absolutely no idea.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/nicola-sturgeon-meeting-with-lawyers-7814748

The minutes cannot be found, Swinney says there is no record of them ever being prepared. So either minutes were not taken or Swinney is lying and covering up what is in them.

[mcshed]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

Andy Wightman

So LJS has now linked to Wightman as the voice of reason a couple of times. It is worth pointing out that Wightman backed the majority findings of the committee. So in Wightman's even handed opinion Sturgeon's written submission of evidence was inaccurate and she misled the committee.

He has also defended the committee's report against SNP attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56513356

 

[pink_triangle]

28 minutes ago, mcshed said:

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/nicola-sturgeon-meeting-with-lawyers-7814748

The minutes cannot be found, Swinney says there is no record of them ever being prepared. So either minutes were not taken or Swinney is lying and covering up what is in them.

I waited for confirmation as I didn't want to criticize unfairly, but things like this just don't pass the smell test.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

We clearly disagree on the seriousness of the Sturgeon and the Scottish government's offences and the necessity for heads to roll. Just as you think I'm predisposed to cut them some slack, I am entitled to think that you (& certain others on here) are over keen to find fault and condemn.

 

Its easy to find fault and condemn when the need of bigger cuts rhan tory austerotyis i built within indy but you a xsturgeon brush it off as a nlothng. 

11 hours ago, LJS said:

In don't believe I have held the SNP up as some sort of paragons of virtue. Indeed, I have often commented that they are politicians & do politics - just as all politicians do.

I certainly think they are better than the Tories but I agree that is not seeing the bar very high.

Here is an interview with one of the people to have come out of this sort affair with any credibility: Andy Wightman. He certainly doesn't let Scotgov off the hook, take about the need for accountability but not necessarily resignations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09bql6j 

Polls look as if they are moving back SNP/Yes's way.

 

 

 

 

 

[eFestivals]

like a bad smell hes back for when one rapey party isn't enough wonder if hell be getting more free tv from his mate Vlad

Edited March 26, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

I guess the hiolyrroiod wage is pretty good better than Vlad pays

[mcshed]

Salmond's party will find it easier to pick up list seats than the SNP so this probably helps the independence movement. Can't see the Greens doing too well though as they picked up quite a bit of proxy SNP support on the lists.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Salmond's party will find it easier to pick up list seats than the SNP so this probably helps the independence movement. Can't see the Greens doing too well though as they picked up quite a bit of proxy SNP support on the lists.

Are there that manyv rape happy voters in Scotland.

[LJS]

24 minutes ago, mcshed said:

Salmond's party will find it easier to pick up list seats than the SNP so this probably helps the independence movement. Can't see the Greens doing too well though as they picked up quite a bit of proxy SNP support on the lists.

Not sure I agree. He will be mainly aiming for Snp list votes which means he will have to attack the SNP. ITV will also keep the whole salmond/sturgeon/harrassment thing on the agenda which won't help the SNP.

I think he could potentially cost the SNP an overall majority. 

I would have preferred it if he had crawled into a hole somewhere.

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

Not sure I agree. He will be mainly aiming for Snp list votes which means he will have to attack the SNP. ITV will also keep the whole salmond/sturgeon/harrassment thing on the agenda which won't help the SNP.

I think he could potentially cost the SNP an overall majority. 

I would have preferred it if he had crawled into a hole somewhere.

The green will get decimated.

[LJS]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The green will get decimated.

I hope you are wrong. They will still get my list vote.🌲

[LJS]

 

 

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, LJS said:

I hope you are wrong. They will still get my list vote.🌲

Not voting for rapeyman i bet most other snippers ewill do.