The Dirty Independence Question

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Cos no onebis judging her on her own critwria of education. 

So Labour should concentrate on education & not as you suggested on calling "our the lying failure of a first minister"

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

 

Because a divisiveref is all the indy parties have to offer. And the snp say rthey should becforgiven revertything else for indy. Theyre even happy to sacrifice200000jobs for it. And think thats worth it. 

 

 

I think we are both well aware of each other's views on all this stuff. I was making a point about the tactics Scottish labour should use. Sorry if my point was too nuanced for you.

[eFestivals]

32 minutes ago, LJS said:

So Labour should concentrate on education & not as you suggested on calling "our the lying failure of a first minister"

She's a failure on education so should be called out on it she robbed the youngest kids of their education to give privileged middle classes free uni. These things Need bringing to public attention along with the missing £700k from SNP accounts now under police investigation.

Quote

I think we are both well aware of each other's views on all this stuff. I was making a point about the tactics Scottish labour should use. Sorry if my point was too nuanced for you.

Tactics around facts dont work on an electorate that stopped caring about the facts the aim of indy trumps everything else. When was the last time the facts of indy altered your opinion towards it.

Edited April 2, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

She's a failure on education so should be called out on it she robbed the youngest kids of their education to give privileged middle classes free uni. These things Need bringing to public attention along with the missing £700k from SNP accounts now under police investigation.

You been reading wings again?

You're becoming quite a wingnut.

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Tactics around facts dont work on an electorate that stopped caring about the facts the aim of indy trumps everything else. When was the last time the facts of indy altered your opinion towards it.

As you are well aware, your "facts of Indy" are rather different from mine. 

🙂

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

So Labour should concentrate on education & not as you suggested on calling "our the lying failure of a first minister"

They should call her out on her failures such are the lies and education.

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I think we are both well aware of each other's views on all this stuff. I was making a point about the tactics Scottish labour should use. Sorry if my point was too nuanced for you.

 

[eFestivals]

45 minutes ago, LJS said:

You been reading wings again?

You're becoming quite a wingnut.

As you are well aware, your "facts of Indy" are rather different from mine. 

🙂

 

The facts of Indy include all the inconvenient stuff wthat indyScotland would have to be deal with  to join the EU and to be and remain a good EU member. That it would involve customs borders with ruuk and those should be condemned with the same venom that shnippers condemned the possibility of new borders between the UK and EU and the myths snippers like to have around those things should get called out including Stugeon dissing gERS as having no meaning for goes thing might be in an indy Scotland. It has meaning cos if spending is much greater than revenue something will have to give.

Edited April 2, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The facts of Indy include all the inconvenient stuff wthat indyScotland would have to be deal with  to join the EU and to be and remain a good EU member. That it would involve customs borders with ruuk and those should be condemned with the same venom that shnippers condemned the possibility of new borders between the UK and EU and the myths snippers like to have around those things should get called out including Stugeon dissing gERS as having no meaning for goes thing might be in an indy Scotland. It has meaning cos if spending is much greater than revenue something will have to give.

I see no facts.

[LJS]

See how you're always on about flags Neil?

 

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

I see no facts.

Borders would-be a fact same as they are between UK and EU. Currency would-be an awkward fact something Scotland wouldhave to establish to meet EU entry requirements.

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

See how you're always on about flags Neil?

 

If there anything indy there's always more flags than a BNP rally.

[LJS]

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Borders would-be a fact same as they are between UK and EU. Currency would-be an awkward fact something Scotland wouldhave to establish to meet EU entry requirements.

Even the most optimistic Indy supporter does not believe that an Independent Scotland would be an EU member on Independence day.  given recent precedent, it is unlikely we would join the EU without a referendum. So the border shouldn't be a problem initially  - unless the rUK wants to make  it one.

And if we do join the EU, our border arrangements with the rUK will depend on what arrangements the UK has with the EU at that time. One would imagine that, considering all the current border problems UK is experiencing, I would imagine the UK government is going to come under increasing pressure to negotiate an improve trade deal with the EU. 

Now I'd like to return to this claim you made yesterday "These things Need bringing to public attention along with the missing £700k from SNP accounts now under police investigation."

I'm wondering where you got that from?

The only place I've seen that story is on Wings but I know you wouldn't take anything from there as being factually accurate. 

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

Even the most optimistic Indy supporter does not believe that an Independent Scotland would be an EU member on Independence day.  given recent precedent, it is unlikely we would join the EU without a referendum. So the border shouldn't be a problem initially  - unless the rUK wants to make  it one.

Tas the EU is given as one of the main reasons for indy.these facts need to be front and centre so everyone knows what they're getting into. And snippers can't use their normal obfuscation and avoidance about them (much as you've tried doing here).

3 hours ago, LJS said:

And if we do join the EU, our border arrangements with the rUK will depend on what arrangements the UK has with the EU at that time.

 

We know what the arrangements are at this time.

 

3 hours ago, LJS said:

One would imagine that, considering all the current border problems UK is experiencing, I would imagine the UK government is going to come under increasing pressure to negotiate an improve trade deal with the EU. 

Those border problems aren't going away unless the UK joins the cu and SM neither of which will happen.

 

3 hours ago, LJS said:

Now I'd like to return to this claim you made yesterday "These things Need bringing to public attention along with the missing £700k from SNP accounts now under police investigation."

I'm wondering where you got that from?

You guessed right yesterday.

3 hours ago, LJS said:

The only place I've seen that story is on Wings but I know you wouldn't take anything from there as being factually accurate. 

They tend to lie about the facts of indy and are stanch supporters of everything SNP.

[eFestivals]

Have just read an article that says salmond is less personally popular in Scotland than Spaffer and that alba mighty end up with no seats.itll probably frost the SNP some seats too and possibly no majority for an indyref.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

Have just read an article that says salmond is less personally popular in Scotland than Spaffer and that alba mighty end up with no seats.itll probably frost the SNP some seats too and possibly no majority for an indyref.

On the basis of the one poll that has been carried out since he launched his party, that is accurate.  If you desperately want to examine all the details the tables of the poll can be found here

 https://cdn.survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/03150817/Survation-DC-Thomson-Scotland-Tracker-Survey-Data-Tables.xlsx

They do not make good reading for Mr Salmond. There are no straws to clutch at for him - other then 6% support in the North East of Scotland where he is standing - so he might just scrape in himself.

Most projections I have seen suggest that on these figures, the SNP would have a very slender majority, but with the Greens forecast to have perhaps 11 MSPs there would be a clear majority for parties who favour  independence and a second divisive indyref.

Of course it is only one poll and it is early days  - some are suggesting that 3% or Alba is  something to build on  - others are suggesting that the first few days of the party are when they were getting peak publicity and if they were going to stage anything of a breakthrough, they would need to have polled much higher.

Your new friend StuAnon is still firmly peddling the view that Alba is the second coming of Christ. Of course that is when he isn't making up allegations of fraud against the SNP that gullible fools believe because it fits with their prejudices.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by LJS

[eFestivals]

49 minutes ago, LJS said:

On the basis of the one poll that has been carried out since he launched his party, that is accurate.  If you desperately want to examine all the details the tables of the poll can be found here

 https://cdn.survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/03150817/Survation-DC-Thomson-Scotland-Tracker-Survey-Data-Tables.xlsx

They do not make good reading for Mr Salmond. There are no straws to clutch at for him - other then 6% support in the North East of Scotland where he is standing - so he might just scrape in himself.

Most projections I have seen suggest that on these figures, the SNP would have a very slender majority, but with the Greens forecast to have perhaps 11 MSPs there would be a clear majority for parties who favour  independence and a second divisive indyref.

Of course it is only one poll and it is early days  - some are suggesting that 3% or Alba is  something to build on  - others are suggesting that the first few days of the party are when they were getting peak publicity and if they were going to stage anything of a breakthrough, they would need to have polled much higher.

Your new friend StuAnon is still firmly peddling the view that Alba is the second coming of Christ. Of course that is when he isn't making up allegations of fraud against the SNP that gullible fools believe because it fits with their prejudices.

 

 

 

 

 

Glad the missing money story is getting some wing if it wasn't missing they could make the issue go away by showing the money.there fuck all trustworthy about the indy campaign like brexit it rides the lies. Chokkablog picks it all apart for anyone patient enough to read it all which I've donein the past.

[LJS]

53 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Glad the missing money story is getting some wing if it wasn't missing they could make the issue go away by showing the money.

There is no missing money. You have fallen for StuAnon's conspiracy bullshit. I am howling with laughter at your naiveté. It's amazing how you will suddenly trust someone who you have previously advised of being a pathological liar when he suddenly says something you want to hear.

You do realise if there was missing money, someone in the MSM would have picked it up.

You've been had Neil.

A wee tip for you. Never ever believe what you read on wings without double checking out with other sources. 

 

 

Quote

there fuck all trustworthy about the indy campaign like brexit it rides the lies. Chokkablog picks it all apart for anyone patient enough to read it all which I've donein the past.

Good old Kevin. You know he wrote a blog about 2 years ago entitled something like "all the good stuff about the Union, part 1"  he promised part 2 would follow shortly. Guess what?

Were still waiting.

Guess he must still be trying to work out what is good about the Union.

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by LJS

[eFestivals]

37 minutes ago, LJS said:

There is no missing money. You have fallen for StuAnon's conspiracy bullshit. I am howling with laughter at your naiveté. It's amazing how you will suddenly trust someone who you have previously advised of being a pathological liar when he suddenly says something you want to hear.

The SNP sownauditcomitee members can't locate the money .

 

37 minutes ago, LJS said:

You do realise if there was missing money, someone in the MSM would have picked it up.

You've been had Neil.

A wee tip for you. Never ever believe what you read on wings without double checking out with other sources. 

There are no other sorsurses everyone is on the look aid even you clearing them on the basis of nothing.wgich is the problem.

37 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

 

Good old Kevin. You know he wrote a blog about 2 years ago entitled something like "all the good stuff about the Union, part 1"  he promised part 2 would follow shortly. Guess what?

Were still waiting.

Guess he must still be trying to work out what is good about the Union.

 

10 billion a year not good enough for you.it will be if when you're having to find it yourself.

[LJS]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

The SNP sownauditcomitee members can't locate the money .

According to who? 

 

Oh, Wings. That reliable source.

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

There are no other sorsurses everyone is on the look aid even you clearing them on the basis of nothing.wgich is the problem.

Or maybe it's just StuAnon conspiracy shite. Which only desperate & gullible fools would fall for.

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

10 billion a year not good enough for you.it will be if when you're having to find it yourself.

Too poor....

[LJS]

In other news, there is a new poll in the Sunday times 2moro with Alba on 6% which puts them in line for some seats. Bizarrely George Galloway's alliance for unity is on 4%.

 

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

According to who? 

 

Oh, Wings. That reliable source.

Or maybe it's just StuAnon conspiracy shite. Which only desperate & gullible fools would fall for.

Too poor....

Thwe £10bn is just the reality of the difference between tax raised and Scottish spending.

And the EU wouldnt allow it to continue which means higher taxes or big spending cuts more of those awkward facts.

Edited April 4, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

In other news, there is a new poll in the Sunday times 2moro with Alba on 6% which puts them in line for some seats. Bizarrely George Galloway's alliance for unity is on 4%.

 

Isntfingerin the air the normal snipper analysis of indy.

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

 

Too poor....

Too stupid and too dishonest to honestly face the issues.

[eFestivals]

On 4/3/2021 at 2:56 PM, LJS said:

Even the most optimistic Indy supporter does not believe that an Independent Scotland would be an EU member on Independence day.

Plenty of Scots were suckered by stureons fakerybits not because it raises a number of problems for the EU and it's members such as referendums in many member countries to agree new treaties for Scotlands membership and extra strains on the already strained financial settlements as Scotland would be a drain on EU funds at the expense of other members Plenty think they is dead keen to have Scotland as a member.as we've seen they don't need your fish or whiskey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/3/2021 at 2:56 PM, LJS said:

And if we do join the EU

It wil be really joining with international treaties with obligation and not sturgeon fakery.

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Plenty of Scots were suckered by stureons fakerybits not because it raises a number of problems for the EU and it's members such as referendums in many member countries to agree new treaties for Scotlands membership and extra strains on the already strained financial settlements as Scotland would be a drain on EU funds at the expense of other members Plenty think they is dead keen to have Scotland as a member.as we've seen they don't need your fish or whiskey.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wil be really joining with international treaties with obligation and not sturgeon fakery.

I doubt the obligaionwill be honestly discussed as I only ever see lies and deflection snippers are as honest as Farage about the EU.eu rules say the euro is obligatory the normal dishonest retort is something about Sweden who joined at a time of different rules.

Edited April 4, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I doubt the obligaionwill be honestly discussed as I only ever see lies and deflection snippers are as honest as Farage about the EU.eu rules say the euro is obligatory the normal dishonest retort is something about Sweden who joined at a time of different rules.

"Sweden does not currently use the euro as its currency and has no plans to replace the krona in the near future. Sweden's Treaty of Accession of 1994 made it subject to the Treaty of Maastricht, which obliges states to join the eurozone once they meet the necessary conditions. Sweden maintains that joining the European Exchange Rate Mechanism II (ERM II), participation in which for at least two years is a requirement for euro adoption, is voluntary,and has chosen to remain outside pending public approval by a referendum, thereby intentionally avoiding the fulfilment of the adoption requirements.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_and_the_euro#:~:text=Sweden does not currently use,they meet the necessary conditions.

[kaosmark2]

Special treatment and exemptions for existing members wouldn't apply to Scotland.

Or to UK rejoining the EU.