The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I would be saying exactly what I'm saying now. The gentleman in question should have kept his head down & not set up a political party. I would have been just as delighted if his party looked set to be a complete disaster.

You're hapyforthesexpesttobeaseociatedwithidy be thopehefailsahddestrotsthatglinkvcauseofhowitreflecksback in you.ut reflected back in tiu for all the tyears you ybnceitucaky supported his guff and gave continued to

[LJS]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

You're hapyforthesexpesttobeaseociatedwithidy be thopehefailsahddestrotsthatglinkvcauseofhowitreflecksback in you.ut reflected back in tiu for all the tyears you ybnceitucaky supported his guff and gave continued to

No idea what you're on about, Neil.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

No idea what you're on about, Neil.

You sudden criticisms of salmond were because fyiu don't like how he shows ubdtt and you in a poor light. There's no undoing how you've shown yourself in that ooiir light with all of those years of being an uncritical shep.

[LJS]

Just now, eFestivals said:

You sudden criticisms of salmond were because fyiu don't like how he shows ubdtt and you in a poor light. There's no undoing how you've shown yourself in that ooiir light with all of those years of being an uncritical shep.

 You know Neil, in the real world folk can change their opinions on other folk. I used to rather like Rolf Harris - I'm not so keen now. I was never a huge Gary Glitter fan but I did go to one of his Xmas concerts in Glasgow many years ago & thoroughly enjoyed it (although my critical faculties may have been dulled a little by the couple of beers  I had beforehand) I don't think I'd go back.

I did quite like Alex Salmond although if you look closely enough at my comments during indyref¹, you will find enough criticisms of him to demonstrate I was not an uncritical shep (or sheep even).

What has been revealed about his conduct whilst in office & equally his conduct since leaving office has changed my view of him. I was disappointed when he decided to re-enter the world of politics and, as I posted on here, I was worried that it might backfire & work against the Indy cause. It looks like I had no need to be worried - It looks like he will be largely irrelevant - which is exactly what he should be. 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

 You know Neil, in the real world folk can change their opinions on other folk. I used to rather like Rolf Harris - I'm not so keen now. I was never a huge Gary Glitter fan but I did go to one of his Xmas concerts in Glasgow many years ago & thoroughly enjoyed it (although my critical faculties may have been dulled a little by the couple of beers  I had beforehand) I don't think I'd go back.

I did quite like Alex Salmond although if you look closely enough at my comments during indyref¹, you will find enough criticisms of him to demonstrate I was not an uncritical shep (or sheep even).

What has been revealed about his conduct whilst in office & equally his conduct since leaving office has changed my view of him. I was disappointed when he decided to re-enter the world of politics and, as I posted on here, I was worried that it might backfire & work against the Indy cause. It looks like I had no need to be worried - It looks like he will be largely irrelevant - which is exactly what he should be. 

All flag shaggers are the same blind allegiance before consideration.

[LJS]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

All flag shaggers are the same blind allegiance before consideration.

I have no blind allegiance to anyone or anything.

and, for the umpteenth time, I don't own a flag  

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, LJS said:

I have no blind allegiance to anyone or anything.

an

Just unquestioning alligience to the cause. Never seen you question the claims made for indy

[LJS]

34 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Just unquestioning alligience to the cause. Never seen you question the claims made for indy

You clearly weren't paying attention during indyref1, then.

Please note that it is possible to question some claims and still support Indy.

It is also possible to question some of the claims of Indy without believing all the claims you make.

🙂

 

[eFestivals]

9 minutes ago, LJS said:

You clearly weren't paying attention during indyref1, then.

Iyou believed every word of sLmonds predicted oil revenues.

Quote

Please note that it is possible to question some claims and still support Indy.

But not as it's presented with all issues able to be overcome. You said you thought Scotlands future as an EU member was guaranteed despite it not being a member)andnot that you'd be voting to remove it from the EU)... And how's you claim scotland deserves another ref because it's been removed from the EU something you were happy to make happen.

 

 

Quote

It is also possible to question some of the claims of Indy without believing all the claims you make.

🙂

The claims j make are simply theconsequences of the choice of uindy that Scotland would have to make big tax rises or spending cut because expenditure is much greater then revenue raised... As pointed out each year by the Scottish government within GERS.

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Only salmond left as a national embRessesment until the election whebn every alba vote adds to that

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Only salmond left as a national embRessesment

Surely you mean regional embarrassment?

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

until the election whebn every alba vote adds to that

Thank Christ it looks like there will be precious few of them then. 😊🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, LJS said:

Surely you mean regional embarrassment

You giving upp on. But scotland is a country then. 

Quote

Thank Christ it looks like there will be precious few of them then. 😊🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You giving upp on. But scotland is a country then. 

 

Not at all. Good that you now clearly accept that it is.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, LJS said:

Not at all. Good that you now clearly accept that it is.

I accept that it was three hundred years ago and some haven't caught up yet. Texss wasomore recently a County as was bavaria. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I accept that it was three hundred years ago and some haven't caught up yet. Texss wasomore recently a County as was bavaria. 

Blood & soil nonsense.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

Blood & soil nonsense.

Thats you with must be all of ancient scotland not just thre bits which might vote for it. 

[LJS]

21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Thats you with must be all of ancient scotland 

Not at all. We'll let you keep Berwick....for the time being.

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, LJS said:

Not at all. We'll let you keep Berwick....for the time being.

Tv if you tied to take it again you'd lose another war.. 

[LJS]

So, Neil (or anyone else passing by)I thought it might be worth asking a serious question.

We spent some time discussing whether the Scottish had a valid mandate for Indyref2 in the last parliament.

So this time round it looks pretty clear that the SNP are "promising" Indyref2 in the first half the next parliamentary term. 

And it also appears clear that the Greens are explicitly and clearly supporting Indy ref2

So what outcome do we need in your view for the Scottish Government to have a mandate for Indyref2 that Westminster ought to recognise?

how about: SNP get over 50% of the constituency vote?

or : SNP get a clear majority of seats in Holyrood?

What about SNP + Green get over 50% in list vote?

or SNP + Green get a clear majority of seats in Holyrood?

Or is it impossible for them to gain a mandate that you would recognise?

 

 

[mcshed]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

So, Neil (or anyone else passing by)I thought it might be worth asking a serious question.

We spent some time discussing whether the Scottish had a valid mandate for Indyref2 in the last parliament.

So this time round it looks pretty clear that the SNP are "promising" Indyref2 in the first half the next parliamentary term. 

And it also appears clear that the Greens are explicitly and clearly supporting Indy ref2

So what outcome do we need in your view for the Scottish Government to have a mandate for Indyref2 that Westminster ought to recognise?

how about: SNP get over 50% of the constituency vote?

or : SNP get a clear majority of seats in Holyrood?

What about SNP + Green get over 50% in list vote?

or SNP + Green get a clear majority of seats in Holyrood?

Or is it impossible for them to gain a mandate that you would recognise?

 

 

I've always said if an SNP majority at Holyrood explicitly standing on a referendum in the upcoming term should be allowed to hold a referendum.

Whether a Green/SNP majority has a mandate depends on what the Green manifesto says, they are clearly a pro-Indy party but whether a vote for them is a vote for IndyRef2 remains to be seen.

Thankfully it doesn't look like Alba need to come into consideration but certainly a vote for Alba is clearly a more aggressive vote for Independence so I'd say an SNP/Alba majority would have legitimacy as well.

As for SNP getting above 50% in the constituencies, it would certainly add heft to any claim. Broadly speaking I'm not in favour of ignoring the majority of the populations wishes anything that looks like standing in the way of Scotland making it's own choice only helps the separatists.

The first half of Parliament seems awfully soon, for all Neil likes to laugh at the 2014 White Paper it was at least a serious attempt to lay the groundwork for what independence might look like and for all that it missed out or glossed over it was light years ahead of any official analysis of the consequences of Brexit, and where it's assumptions looked dodgy it was a jumping off place for the debate.  I would like to see something similar produced if we are going to have another referendum and not have a Brexit like promise unicorns debate, as if we become independent based on lies I'm sure you agree we all suffer.

[eFestivals]

I see Stugeon is now talking up we'll get an indyref Spaffer won't say no, sounded to me like she was scared People might cast their votes on the basis of other things, such as the SNP handling of education for instance.

[eFestivals]

Belfast coming tho a scotland near you soon.

Edited April 10, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

A wee treat for you, Neil.

 

 

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

A wee treat for you, Neil.

 

 

Dog whistles about the English hhsve cventral pace in the indie movement. To be replaced by the normal ssottish sectzrisamism soon 

[eFestivals]

Its coming home its coming home fatty s coming home