The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, LJS said:

No of course not. If you go looking in the sewers, you will find rats. 

Just out of interest, where is it you are reading these comments?

I'm talking about comments I see in mainstream places comments under newspaper artices not any dark places it's normal indy opinion and you prefer to pretend it's something unusual wheen it's not. Even you skirt it you complained that there's no big beast UK politicians, complaining about uk quality but you can't see the low quality of indy piticians or that low quality remains popular amongst indy supporters. Salmond is still popular despite his sex pester and despite his white paper being  exposed as a huge fraud trying to con Scotland. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Try checking the comments under some of these articles 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/10/scotland-election-result-referendum-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/10/scotland-election-result-referendum-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Those articles have been picked at random from articles I've read and where I've read the comments underneath. 

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm talking about comments I see in mainstream places comments under newspaper artices not any dark places it's normal indy opinion and you prefer to pretend it's something unusual wheen it's not. Even you skirt it you complained that there's no big beast UK politicians, complaining about uk quality but you can't see the low quality of indy piticians or that low quality remains popular amongst indy supporters.

You are right i did complain about the dearth of politicians of stature but unfortunately for you, I talked about this being the case on both sides of the border. So, as usual you have misrepresented what I said. 

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Salmond is still popular despite his sex pester and despite his white paper being  exposed as a huge fraud trying to con Scotland. 

Popular my arse. Boris Johnson is more "popular" in Scotland than Salmond. NO one describes Mr Johnson as "popular"

No doubt you will reply that he is popular because "some people like him." Some people like Laurence Fox. I guess some people liked the UK Eurovision entry. Neither are "popular" in any normal use of the word.

 

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Try checking the comments under some of these articles 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/10/scotland-election-result-referendum-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/10/scotland-election-result-referendum-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Those articles have been picked at random from articles I've read and where I've read the comments underneath. 

So I looked at a few comments in the one article that you kindly supplied 2 links to and couldn't find any comments that showed a " hatred of England" but I'll freely admit that I have limited patience for BTL comments and am perfectly prepared to admit that it is likely that some people have expressed such views (although we know that you can be quite imaginative in your interpretation of what people say.)

Anyway lets just agree that there are some nutters who support Scottish Independence.

So what?

[eFestivals]

54 minutes ago, LJS said:

You are right i did complain about the dearth of politicians of stature but unfortunately for you, I talked about this being the case on both sides of the border. So, as usual you have misrepresented what I said. 

I pointed out we get who we vote for salmond is still collecting votes from Indy supporters and held in high regard by the Indy campaign. There was no loud dissaccociating from him when he launched alba.bit was regarded as a game changer -positive for indy

54 minutes ago, LJS said:

Popular my arse. Boris Johnson is more "popular" in Scotland than Salmond. NO one describes Mr Johnson as "popular"

Popular enough to get the largest majority for 20 years including plenty of votes within Scotland

54 minutes ago, LJS said:

No doubt you will reply that he is popular because "some people like him." Some people like Laurence Fox. I guess some people liked the UK Eurovision entry. Neither are "popular" in any normal use of the word.

 

So I looked at a few comments in the one article that you kindly supplied 2 links to and couldn't find any comments that showed a " hatred of England" but I'll freely admit that I have limited patience for BTL comments and am perfectly prepared to admit that it is likely that some people have expressed such views (although we know that you can be quite imaginative in your interpretation of what people say.)

You have to be patient and read thru them to see the heinous views of lots of Indy supoorters a lots of talk about how England (really talking about the UK govt) acts with spite towards scotland.just because it doesn't as CT for Scotland s interests above all others, neither does the UK govt do that for England the suggestion is that it does just showing that Indy supporters are blind to everything but Scotland.

54 minutes ago, LJS said:

Anyway lets just agree that there are some nutters who support Scottish Independence.

So what?

The Indy campaign loves to claim it's only about a mythical lovely civic nationalism. It's a nationalism defined by its own perceived enemy.

[eFestivals]

There's lots of talk about how England should vote in Scotland s interests and dislike of what is perceived as England voting in England's interests withe brexit? Like England isn't allowed what you want for yourselves.

[LJS]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

There's lots of talk about how England should vote in Scotland s interests and dislike of what is perceived as England voting in England's interests withe brexit? Like England isn't allowed what you want for yourselves.

None of that is "hatred". And what I want is independence which by definition means England is completely free to decide what it wants for itself.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

None of that is "hatred". And what I want is independence which by definition means England is completely free to decide what it wants for itself.

ngland doesnt. the uk does. and if scotland was as pro EU as the indy campaign likes to pretend then bre the brexit vote would have been remain. the amount of victory for leave was smaller than the number of scots who voted to leave.

scotland is free to decide for itself? it decided to be part of the uk and indy supporters blame not true scots for that. very civic

 

if England wanted to do thing for itself and fuck over Scotland it could do a much better job than its been doing: how do you fit England funding Scotland at a higher rate than it funds itself?can fit that into your England hates Scotland myth?

 

[eFestivals]

the people i see not respecting scottish votes are indy supporters? who never respected the vote to be paart of the uk? being part of the uk means being involved with uk votes. and respecting those.

[LJS]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

ngland doesnt. the uk does. and if scotland was as pro EU as the indy campaign likes to pretend then bre the brexit vote would have been remain. the amount of victory for leave was smaller than the number of scots who voted to leave.

That is a totally meaningless and irrelevant statistic. Voters in Scotland voted to remain in the EU by a substantial margin. 

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

scotland is free to decide for itself? it decided to be part of the uk and indy supporters blame not true scots for that. very civic

I don't. No one I know does. Maybe a couple of numpties BTL in the guardian do? So what?

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if England wanted to do thing for itself and fuck over Scotland it could do a much better job than its been doing: how do you fit England funding Scotland at a higher rate than it funds itself?can fit that into your England hates Scotland myth?

 

Is that the "England hates Scotland myth" that I have constantly said is a myth?

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

That is a totally meaningless and irrelevant statistic. Voters in Scotland voted to remain in the EU by a substantial margin. 

voters in scotland coul have ensured scotland stayed in the eu by voting to reamain in the eu in totality. scottish votes could have decided how the result went

3 minutes ago, LJS said:

I don't. No one I know does. Maybe a couple of numpties BTL in the guardian do? So what?

Is that the "England hates Scotland myth" that I have constantly said is a myth?

go on  give me the myth of how you're unaware of some major English hatred from scots. and such scots make up a significant part of indy supporters

ill make a point of flagging some up for you in the future

its not a myth you have to make false claims about how England acts against Scotland? England doesn't individuals in England vote in their own interests no differently to how you want individuals in Scotland to vote in what you have decided is Scotland's interests with indy.

where its you and indy supporter s who'll be disrespecting Scottish votes and not England.

[eFestivals]

when the indy campaign comes out with a solid commitment to join the eu i'll start to believe some of the guff i read and stop seeing it as a convenient way to ride on hatred of England on the basis of a myth of England not respecting Scottish votes (remember there was no Scottish vote about leaving the eu just a uk vote that Scotland was part of at the choice of Scotland when you pretend it was something forced onto scotland you are dismissing the majoity decision of scotland to be part of uk decisions)... the scottish view expressed by the scottish leader was that the uk was not allowed to make democratic decisions not good basis for a new cpuntry.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

That is a totally meaningless and irrelevant statistic. Voters in Scotland voted to remain in the EU by a substantial margin. 

It's only meaningless if Scottish votes to remain part of the UK are meaningless. It's true that Scottish votes could have changed the result and now you're disrespecting the Scottish votes which wanted out of the EU which were a substantial number if votes

 

 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

I don't. No one I know does. Maybe a couple of numpties BTL in the guardian do? So what?

Is that the "England hates Scotland myth" that I have constantly said is a myth?

You say it's a myth while doing it yourself claiming England votes to fuck over Scotland to benefit England there is no English vote so no way for England to do that. and if it was doing that it's not benefitting England. England votes to keep Scotland at a higher standard than it keeps England.

 

It's not just one ortwo numpties, the sentiments expressed by those Indy supporters at the guardian are typical of Indy supporters commenting anywhere at all times. It's not one I the numpties it's the heart of the Indy campaign.

[eFestivals]

Indie won't cure any of scotlands roblems. Indy is when Scotlands problems get to properly start. 

Because scotlands problems come from within Scotland 

[LJS]

27 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Indie won't cure any of scotlands roblems. Indy is when Scotlands problems get to properly start. 

Because scotlands problems come from within Scotland 

I'm a great believer in people dealing with their own problems & not relying on others to sort them out for them.

[eFestivals]

44 minutes ago, LJS said:

I'm a great believer in people dealing with their own problems & not relying on others to sort them out for them.

Then let's see the indy campaign deal with the problems rather than try to deflect them away with bullshit stutrgeons speciality of the oment same as it was salmond's last time. Seems like indy Scots aren't grown up enough to deal with the problems 

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, LJS said:

I'm a great believer in people dealing with their own problems & not relying on others to sort them out for them.

Hence not a fan of Boris!

[LJS]

On 5/23/2021 at 8:57 PM, kaosmark2 said:

Hence not a fan of Boris!

Not a fan of my government being decided by people who think Mr Johnson is fit to govern.

If, after today's "revelations," the Tories' polling lead remains in double figures, I'm sure some folk at least will begin to understand why some of us would, respectfully like to leave the shitshow that is the UK & take our chances all alone in the big wide world without people like Mr Johnson, Mr Hancock (and even Mr Cummings) to look after us.

 

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

Not a fan of my government being decided by people who think Mr Johnson is fit to govern.

If, after today's "revelations," the Tories' polling lead remains in double figures, I'm sure some folk at least will begin to understand why some of us would, respectfully like to leave the shitshow that is the UK & take our chances all alone in the big wide world without people like Mr Johnson, Mr Hancock (and even Mr Cummings) to look after us.

 

 

Yeah but you're suckers for the bullshit of salmond or indy supporters were last time round .believing his ridiculous oil revenue predictions. And even now most Indy supporters say that the Scottish govt publishes lies in GERS and isn't smart enough to do accounting properly cos how GERS I'd done in in the control off the Scottish govt.

This pretence that there's nothing shit about politics or voters in Scotland is as ridiculous as anything you can point at  for the Tories.

[LJS]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yeah but you're suckers for the bullshit of salmond

you appear to be obsessed with him. He is totally irrelevant - he has about as much influence today as George Galloway or Tommy fucking Sheridan 

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

or indy supporters were last time round .believing his ridiculous oil revenue predictions.

what year is it, Neil?

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

And even now most Indy supporters say that the Scottish govt publishes lies in GERS and isn't smart enough to do accounting properly cos how GERS I'd done in in the control off the Scottish govt.

GERS proves nothing. Other than how shit Scotland's economy is with Westminster in charge.

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

This pretence that there's nothing shit about politics or voters in Scotland

care to point out anywhere I have ever claimed that?

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

is as ridiculous as anything you can point at  for the Tories.

what is ridiculous is you putting words in my mouth ... again. 

Of course - I made a point and you have completely failed to address it... because you have no answer to it and you know i'm right.

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

you appear to be obsessed with him. He is totally irrelevant - he has about as much influence today as George Galloway or Tommy fucking Sheridan 

I'm just referring to how Indy supporters sucked it up an refused to call out such clear bulkshit

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

what year is it, Neil?

Idiots tend to be idiots in all years

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

GERS proves nothing. Other than how shit Scotland's economy is with Westminster in charge.

GERS proves Scotland s starting position where thing only change with a plan for how to improve things

 

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

care to point out anywhere I have ever claimed that?

 

Did I say you personally have claimed that your excellent superior leader has does very often

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

what is ridiculous is you putting words in my mouth ... again. 

Of course - I made a point and you have completely failed to address it... because you have no answer to it and you know i'm right.

You made a point about a shit politician and mug voters so imade a poin about shit politicians and mug voters.

[LJS]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

You made a point about a shit politician and mug voters so imade a poin about shit politicians and mug voters.

yeah - except one shit politician will, in all probability win another landslide.

and the other will win fuck all

the words false & equivalence spring to mind

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, LJS said:

yeah - except one shit politician will, in all probability win another landslide.

Yeah your shit politician already did do.and you still haven't noticed how shit she is at least just about everyone in England except Cummings knew that speffer wasn't fit to be on.

14 minutes ago, LJS said:

and the other will win fuck all

the words false & equivalence spring to mind

 

[LJS]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yeah your shit politician already did do.and you still haven't noticed how shit she is at least just about everyone in England except Cummings knew that speffer wasn't fit to be on.

 

and the goalposts move again - you talk about Salmond -  I reply about Salmond  - you suddenly shift to Sturgeon.

 

Because you were talking shite about Salmond

 

And if everyone in England knew that Jonson wasn't fit "to be on" (whatever that means) why did they vote for him.

 

we didn't

 

🙂

 

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, LJS said:

and the goalposts move again - you talk about Salmond -  I reply about Salmond  - you suddenly shift to Sturgeon.

 

I was talking about stergeon when I said can't do accounting properly she regularly calls ou the work of her own govt as shit.

 

Quote

 

Because you were talking shite about Salmond

 

 

 

His oil projection were accurate were they? Or were they big Billy bullshit that Indy supporters everywhere swallowed. Indy supporters want to make Scots poorer than Tories want to make Scots poorer.

 

Quote

 

And if everyone in England knew that Jonson wasn't fit "to be on" (whatever that means) why did they vote for him.

 

we didn't

 

🙂

 

It's meant to say opm. Ivoted for him as much as you did. The same goes for 50%+ if English voters.

Edited May 27, 2021 by eFestivals

[LJS]

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

I was talking about stergeon when I said can't do accounting properly she regularly calls ou the work of her own govt as shit.

You clearly weren't. You talked about "indy supporters"  

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

His oil projection were accurate were they? Or were they big Billy bullshit that Indy supporters everywhere swallowed. Indy supporters want to make Scots poorer than Tories want to make Scots poorer.

Goal posts. You were claiming there is support for salmond. There isn't.

15 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It's meant to say opm. Ivoted for him as much as you did. The same goes for 50%+ if English voters.

It's not about you, Neil. And it's not about me.