The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, LJS said:

You clearly weren't. You talked about "indy supporters"  

 

Is sturgeon not a fact denying Indy supporter like other fsact denying Indy supporters

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Goal posts. You were claiming there is support for salmond. There isn't.

Support for his ridiculous oil money claims which no one in the Indy campaign we would call out for the lies they obviously where. Being blind and going along with the crowd is the path to disaster.

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It's not about you, Neil. And it's not about me.

If people vote for idiots in enough numbers the non idiots get govt from idiots. Your best bet is to try and stop the opportunity for that to happen.... If you're not an idiot.

Edited May 27, 2021 by eFestivals

[kaosmark2]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

Not a fan of my government being decided by people who think Mr Johnson is fit to govern.

If, after today's "revelations," the Tories' polling lead remains in double figures, I'm sure some folk at least will begin to understand why some of us would, respectfully like to leave the shitshow that is the UK & take our chances all alone in the big wide world without people like Mr Johnson, Mr Hancock (and even Mr Cummings) to look after us.

 

 

Yeah, fuck those voters in Dumfries & Galloway, always voting Tory regardless.

[LJS]

3 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yeah, fuck those voters in Dumfries & Galloway, always voting Tory regardless.

Is that the same Dumfries - Galloway that returned a Labour MP in 2005 & 2010, and an SNP MP in 2015?

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

Is that the same Dumfries - Galloway that returned a Labour MP in 2005 & 2010, and an SNP MP in 2015?

That's the same Scotland which voted labour when the top of Labour was full of Scots and which changed its voting to continue voting for self privilege same as any Tory.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

That's the same Scotland which voted labour when the top of Labour was full of Scots

Are you suggesting we only voted Labour because of Gordon Brown &  Alistair Darling. If so why were we voting for them all through the 60's & 70's?

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

and which changed its voting to continue voting for self privilege same as any Tory.

yawns..........😴💤

[eFestivals]

30 minutes ago, LJS said:

Are you suggesting we only voted Labour because of Gordon Brown &  Alistair Darling.

It was many more than those two. Blair's first cabinets were stuffed full of Scots

30 minutes ago, LJS said:

If so why were we voting for them all through the 60's & 70's?

Self interest

30 minutes ago, LJS said:

yawns..........😴💤

Self interest is self interest.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

It was many more than those two. Blair's first cabinets were stuffed full of Scots

Self interest

Self interest is self interest.

So just to be clear, when we vote labour, it's self interest, when we vote SNP, it's self interest. Voting Tory is always about self interest.

So your really just saying Scotland is full of selfish bastards.

Imagine if I said that about the English.

 

[eFestivals]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

So just to be clear, when we vote labour, it's self interest, when we vote SNP, it's self interest. Voting Tory is always about self interest.

So your really just saying Scotland is full of selfish bastards.

Imagine if I said that about the English.

 

The Scottish labour vote ended at the same point Scots at the head of Labour ended. Someof us notice these thingsits an odd coincidence when the alternative voting is clearly about 'me'.

[kaosmark2]

9 hours ago, LJS said:

Is that the same Dumfries - Galloway that returned a Labour MP in 2005 & 2010, and an SNP MP in 2015?

Ah, my bad, I'm confusing my constituencies. I was thinking of Galloway and Upper Nithsdale, as well as Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale, and Tweedale. 

[kaosmark2]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

Are you suggesting we only voted Labour because of Gordon Brown &  Alistair Darling. If so why were we voting for them all through the 60's & 70's?

yawns..........😴💤

There's more Scots voting Tory with Gove in senior positions 😛 

[LJS]

45 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Ah, my bad, I'm confusing my constituencies. I was thinking of Galloway and Upper Nithsdale, as well as Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale, and Tweedale. 

not really sure what your point is here. I am not saying my constituency should get the government it votes for  - that would just be silly - & I know you are not silly.

my worry is that these conversations always end up in Neil's bedroom ... &  I don't want to go there. 😱

[LJS]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The Scottish labour vote ended at the same point Scots at the head of Labour ended. Someof us notice these thingsits an odd coincidence when the alternative voting is clearly about 'me'.

aye and before that we voted labour because of Harry McWilson, "see you Jimmy" Callaghan & Mick McFoot.

you've rumbled us

[Comfy Bean]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

The Scottish labour vote ended at the same point Scots at the head of Labour ended. Someof us notice these thingsits an odd coincidence when the alternative voting is clearly about 'me'.

Even for you mate this is absolute drivel 😂

Are you seriously suggesting that if Labour simply put a Jock in as the Leader the Labour vote will suddenly return in droves. Really ?

An odd coincidence 👏👏😂

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, Comfy Bean said:

Even for you mate this is absolute drivel 😂

Are you seriously suggesting that if Labour simply put a Jock in as the Leader the Labour vote will suddenly return in droves. Really ?

An odd coincidence 👏👏😂

It's not drivel look at polling and the dates of that polling labour loses its support in Scotland at the exact time that brown stops being labour leader.

I'm not suggesting it could be reversed by labour having another Scot as leader. It would also need that to be Sim one known and respected.the SNP and it's supporters have put so much effort into doing down labour there's no easy way back.the same efforts haven't gone into attacking the tories.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

It's not drivel look at polling and the dates of that polling labour loses its support in Scotland at the exact time that brown stops being labour leader.

I'm not suggesting it could be reversed by labour having another Scot as leader. It would also need that to be Sim one known and respected.the SNP and it's supporters have put so much effort into doing down labour there's no easy way back.the same efforts haven't gone into attacking the tories.

We are so fortunate to have, in yourself, someone with such a profound knowledge and understanding of Scottish politics. It is our great privilege that you are happy to share this with us.

Please accept our humble apologies if we don't always appreciate this.

 

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

We are so fortunate to have, in yourself, someone with such a profound knowledge and understanding of Scottish politics. It is our great privilege that you are happy to share this with us.

Please accept our humble apologies if we don't always appreciate this.

 

It doesn't need understanding just observation.the Scottish support for Labour ended when brown stepped down as leader. I'm pretty sure I posted in this thread about it at the time. There were some polls that show the link exceedingly clearly. One day they'll be a factor which will end the support for the SNP will you be as hostile to it being mentioned or is it special hate to to labour from snippers not matched with hate for tories.it alway has to be about attacking labour... Or putting the Tories into govt the SNP have a strong record with that.

[LJS]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

It doesn't need understanding just observation.the Scottish support for Labour ended when brown stepped down as leader. I'm pretty sure I posted in this thread about it at the time. There were some polls that show the link exceedingly clearly. One day they'll be a factor which will end the support for the SNP will you be as hostile to it being mentioned or is it special hate to to labour from snippers not matched with hate for tories.it alway has to be about attacking labour... Or putting the Tories into govt the SNP have a strong record with that.

Leaving aside the fact that the largest drop in labour support didn't happen until some years after big Gordie's departure and the fact that you theory does not explain Labour's popularity in Scotland throughout the 60's & 70's, you might find this helpful.

"Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Incidentally, I agree with Comfy. This bizarre theory of yours is in real contention for the award as your most risible claim ever. 

And there is some tough competition.

[kaosmark2]

29 minutes ago, LJS said:

not really sure what your point is here. I am not saying my constituency should get the government it votes for  - that would just be silly - & I know you are not silly.

my worry is that these conversations always end up in Neil's bedroom ... &  I don't want to go there. 😱

I'm more just referencing that "there's no tories in Scotland" or "people only vote Tory in Scotland out of unionist sentiment" is a myth. 

Different constituencies, demographics, etc. vote differently. It's part of democracy. I have no more desire to be governed by the shitbags in charge than you do.

[eFestivals]

1 hour ago, LJS said:

Leaving aside the fact that the largest drop in labour support didn't happen until some years after big Gordie's departure

 

Not true according to polling.

1 hour ago, LJS said:

 

 

 

 and the fact that you theory does not explain Labour's popularity in Scotland throughout the 60's & 70's, you might find this helpful.

So Scotland didn't think it would benefit from a labour govt?

 

1 hour ago, LJS said:

"Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Incidentally, I agree with Comfy. This bizarre theory of yours is in real contention for the award as your most risible claim ever. 

And there is some tough competition.

I'll do some searching back in this thread for where this got raised before as it might have links to some of that polling

[eFestivals]

31 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'm more just referencing that "there's no tories in Scotland" or "people only vote Tory in Scotland out of unionist sentiment" is a myth. 

It used to be about more pandas than Tories until there was an increased Tory vote in Scotland.

 

31 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Different constituencies, demographics, etc. vote differently. It's part of democracy. I have no more desire to be governed by the shitbags in charge than you do.

You normally seem to believe that all of England has the same desire to be governed by those shitbags.the different votes in different constituencies says differently.

[eFestivals]

scottis views of Labour from 2010. Brown stopped being PM in May 2010.

 

https://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-well-does-scottish-labour-look-after-interests-of-people-in-general/

[eFestivals]

notice how Labour support drops after Brown stopped being PM

[LJS]

52 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Not true according to polling.

So Scotland didn't think it would benefit from a labour govt?

I thought we voted labour because of all the Jocks (goalposts)

52 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'll do some searching back in this thread for where this got raised before as it might have links to some of that polling

Search as much as you want, you are barking at the moon here & I have wasted enough time trying to point this out.

[eFestivals]

47 minutes ago, LJS said:

I thought we voted labour because of all the Jocks (goalposts)

Search as much as you want, you are barking at the moon here & I have wasted enough time trying to point this out.

i found the polling (see above) just not in this thread. its something I've mentioned before in this thread.

you can see from that polling that Scotland suddenly becomes less labour supporting at the exact moment a Scot is no longer labour leader... damn strange coincidence if there's nothing to that angle.

[eFestivals]

57 minutes ago, LJS said:

I thought we voted labour because of all the Jocks (goalposts)

the goalposts for scots voting are always in the same place me-me-me-me of course   (csarcasm) no indy supporter has ever talked about how the they vote snp because the snp put Scotland first. ive never heard a tory supporter say they vote tory because the tories put England first... i have heard plenty of indy supporters make that claim for tory voters.

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Search as much as you want, you are barking at the moon here & I have wasted enough time trying to point this out.

i found the polling (see above) just not in this thread. its something I've mentioned before in this thread. and that idea fits with why indy supporters including you say you vote snp because you want a govt for Scotland that puts Scotland first me-me-me same as you'd claim of a tory voter.

you can see from that polling that Scotland suddenly becomes less labour supporting at the exact moment a Scot is no longer labour leader... damn strange coincidence if there's nothing to that angle.

Edited May 28, 2021 by eFestivals