The Dirty Independence Question

[Neil]

33 minutes ago, MichaelsBeard said:

It’s more of a madness economically than Brexit was yet that’s Indy supporters main argument we should leave the UK now 

leaving the uk is the same madness but racked up a level: Scotland has bigger trade with UK than UK did with EU. and there'll be borders for people too, with the snp plans to have its own immigration regime.

[MichaelsBeard]

16 minutes ago, LJS said:

Yeah, it would be totally crazy to give up on the sure steady & reliable governments we have had from Westminster for the past 10 years.

That’s not an argument in fairness. Doesn’t mean viable concerns should be ignored. 
 

If it came down to politics alone I’d vote for Indy but there is absolutely no doubt we’d be economically worse off as it is at the minute. We need a viable plan. 

[LJS]

15 minutes ago, MichaelsBeard said:

That’s not an argument in fairness. Doesn’t mean viable concerns should be ignored. 
 

If it came down to politics alone I’d vote for Indy but there is absolutely no doubt we’d be economically worse off as it is at the minute. We need a viable plan. 

I don't trust anyone anyone who has "absolutely no doubt"

[MichaelsBeard]

24 minutes ago, LJS said:

I don't trust anyone anyone who has "absolutely no doubt"

I’m basing that on the figures that the SNP themselves produce due to GERS. It’s unequivocally true that indy Scotland, at the very least, enters the new dawn in a worse position financially.

[Neil]

10 hours ago, MichaelsBeard said:

We need a viable plan. 

and people with the mindset tgo critique it, which there wasn't in 2014 when indy supporters swallowed salmond's lies whole.

[Neil]

9 hours ago, MichaelsBeard said:

I’m basing that on the figures that the SNP themselves produce due to GERS. It’s unequivocally true that indy Scotland, at the very least, enters the new dawn in a worse position financially.

there's much more than is covered in GERS cos there's big costs in EU entry criteria  compliance. establishing a central bank and a currency, and dealing with the deficit to the eu's satisfaction. (bigger cuts than tory cuts).

[Neil]

sturgeon has noticed the copenhagen criteria:

Quote

 She implied that could involve spending cuts, tax rises or extra borrowing to fund public services, in order to meet the EU’s fiscal sustainability policies.

from

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/17/independence-will-rid-scotland-of-uk-economic-chaos-says-nicola-sturgeon

[Neil]

from the same article 

Quote

“So interest rates will be extremely high, and obviously an independent Scotland would not be able to pay these interest rates unless it was to adopt massive austerity policies,” he said on a podcast for Gordon Brown’s thinktank, Our Scottish Future.

theres the elephant in the room that snippers pretend doesn't exist.

[Neil]

my fav place for a bit of hard headed an analysis is chokkablog https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/

[Neil]

10 minutes ago, OverlyComplicated said:

"You can pick your reason for getting off this mad, mad bus. It could be because you think a government should have some form of lender of last resort to save it in a crisis. It could be because you’re not keen on austerity. It could even be that you’re not keen on not being told how much austerity is proposed.

It might might be because you realise they have no economic plan for Scotland. It could be because you believe climate change is real and that we need to invest more than one per cent of GDP in it over the next decade. It might be because they’ve failed to come up with any answers for trade or borders.

Or it could be because the whole thing is utter pish. Pick your reason, but for god sake get off this mad, mad bus."

http://robinmcalpine.org/this-paper-answers-nothing-this-government-has-no-answers/

Quote

 but who is the Scottish Government’s lender of last resort?

same as it is for any sovereign state, "the people".

[Neil]

Quote

the SNP now seems to hint that it won’t borrow to cover the deficit but set deficit rules. 

deficit rules will be required by the EU for its stability pact.

[LJS]

6 hours ago, Neil said:

from the same article 

theres the elephant in the room that snippers pretend doesn't exist.

From Prof Ronald MacDonald who is about as open minded on Indy as you are.

 

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

my fav place for a bit of hard headed 

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

an anal

Yup

6 minutes ago, Neil said:

ysis is chokkablog https://chokkablog.blogspot.com/

The king of the Union spreadsheets.

 

Ha ha ha ha ha 😉

Edited October 18, 2022 by LJS

[Neil]

Quote

Scotland is going to get through the first ten years of independence by borrowing only £5 billion. 

scotland will be lucky/doing well  if it can get thru the first year of indy with borrowing of only £5bn.

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

From Prof Ronald MacDonald who is about as open minded on Indy as you are.

 

because you're mr open-minded about indy, you called the snp out for the bollocks of their 2014 white paper, and didn't mindlessly suck it up.

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Yup

 

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

The king of the Union spreadsheets.

 

Ha ha ha ha ha 😉

somone more able to call out bullshit than anyone on the nats side.

[Neil]

oh dear its all gone pete tong.

[LJS]

22 minutes ago, Neil said:

oh dear its all gone pete tong.

I don't think there was any realistic expectation (amongst sensible people) that the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom would come to any other conclusion.

However, there were those who thought otherwise & the notion that we could have a referendum without the permission of whichever Tory Zealot has been foisted upon us by the English population, needed put to bed.

 

It is now absolutely crystal clear that the English Tory government has no respect for democracy at all and the battle lines are now firmly drawn for the next General Election.

 

It is absolutely preposterous that we find ourselves in this situation but it is entirely due to the obstinance of the Tory party. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

It is now absolutely crystal clear that the English Tory government has no respect for democracy at all

you mean like the scottish tory govt with their one policy of always a referendum, cos the last result doesn't count.

 

 

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

and the battle lines are now firmly drawn for the next General Election.

where sturgeon will be blowing hot air as today's judgement made clear.

 

 

4 minutes ago, LJS said:

It is absolutely preposterous that we find ourselves in this situation but it is entirely due to the obstinance of the Tory party. 

entirely due to Scotland rejecting independence in 2014, and that vote not being respected, or the promises made around it, including "once in a generation".

[LJS]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

  the promises made around it, including "once in a generation".

can't believe you are still peddling that pish

[Neil]

12 minutes ago, LJS said:

can't believe you are still peddling that pish

Do you remember the 2014 white paper that you said was fantastic and covered every angle. No you don't. There's no lie to big to be rejected by the snippets. Bet we'll see rapeyman back in charge soon. 

[fraybentos1]

11 minutes ago, Neil said:

 Bet we'll see rapeyman back in charge soon. 

If you mean Salmond then you have literally 0 clue about Scottish politics. 

[LJS]

25 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

If you mean Salmond then you have literally 0 clue about Scottish politics. 

Tell us something we don't know.

 

[LJS]

16 minutes ago, OverlyComplicated said:

Personally I would be much happier if our first minister could spend her day negotiating with the teachers union to ensure my kids can go to school tomorrow than spending her time playing constitutional silly buggers but here we are, the SNP are only interested in solving Scotland's problems after independence rather than doing something right now.

Although, I wouldn't necessarily agree with your "silly buggers" stuff, I would suggest if you want to get away from the debate about independence, you should work on persuading people to stop voting for it.

As long as folk continue to vote for it, the "constitutional silly buggers" will keep on going.

[LJS]

41 minutes ago, Neil said:

Do you remember the 2014 white paper 

Yes.

41 minutes ago, Neil said:

that you said was fantastic and covered every angle.

I did neither.

41 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

No you don't. There's no lie to big to be rejected by the snippets. Bet we'll see rapeyman back in charge soon. 

You literally haven't a fucking clue.

[fraybentos1]

Salmond who has a net favourability akin to Jimmy Saville and who's current party gets around 1 % of votes at a push and isn't even in the SNP is going to be next SNP leader🤣🤣 might be the worst take ever

[Neil]

14 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Salmond who has a net favourability akin to Jimmy Saville and who's current party gets around 1 % of votes at a push and isn't even in the SNP is going to be next SNP leader🤣🤣 might be the worst take ever

At least everyone knows who rapeyman is.