sometimes, I just feel like crying......

[Rufus Gwertigan]

There's a serious aspect to this though, linked to what I was saying about older women. If women don't come to male attention in the same way, either because of their age or because of men's perception of their lack of attractiveness, i think it's liberating for women, because they don't see themselves through men's eyes, and can concentrate on simply being.

so maybe women deemed as unattractive would be nore likely to be feminists, not out of sour grapes, but because they're not subject to the same social pressures as 'attractive' women are?

Edited January 13, 2012 by Rufus Gwertigan

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Honest question...

Is it just a coincidence almost all feminists are ugly ?

[feral chile]

I think when you get to the point where you are telling any man or women what they should or should not be doing then you are being sexist...

If women want to wiggle their tits at men to help sell products then its a decision for them... As long as no one is stopping them from doing other things I don't see the big issue...

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Agree wholeheartedly with the first paragraph.

It's complicated though. I lost a lot of weight a few years ago, and it changed everything. Instead of being a person, it was like I was suddenly fair game. At first, I felt more confident and attractive, but that later turned to insecurity, because everyone's attitude, male and female, changed towards me. I felt like I was the same person, but with social dynamics, maybe my behaviour changed too. I went from feeling very secure in myself to being insecure, both with my appearance, and second guessing my social interaction. Was I giving people the wrong idea etc. And instead of males treating me as an equal, a mate, they were categorising me into fanciable/non-fanciable categories, and being pushy or dismissive.

And I've noticed tha\t it's the more attractive females who are more insecure about their appearance - presumably because they've learnt that's how they're valued?

[Katster]

Whereas women will buy shiny things just because they are shiny. I know this because female friends have admitted as such (so it must be true!).

[Ed209]

I was going to post that but thought it was even more obvious than the original point

[Katster]

yep - because the likes of ads 'teaches' them that that's what's expected of them.

Try joining up the dots, eh?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I didn't know that things had to be precluded because they were obvious. Apologies. The rules on here are as baffling as Mornington Crescent.

[Katster]

I didn't know that things had to be precluded because they were obvious. Apologies. The rules on here are as baffling as Mornington Crescent.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Not ruling dude, just saying is all

[feral chile]

If you are blonde, big tits and have a nice arse.... But thick as fuck... Then whats wrong in that girl using her god given assists to make a living... If she just used her brain she would be fucked!

It would be pretty sexist to stop them from doing it

Edited January 13, 2012 by feral chile

[feral chile]

Nothing at all..

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

lol

[kaosmark2]

so much for feminism then....

anyway, men need liberating just as much as women do

humanism always seemed the more appropriate option to me

[kaosmark2]

we might never get rid of racism either, but it's worth a shot

we're all different, my wife is very different to my sister (both beautiful souls), just because they're females means zilch in the end, and the longer we accept and perpetuate the stereotypes, the longer it'll be before we have a 'better' (?) understanding of ... well... of everything I guess

I've stopped feeling like crying

for now

[kaosmark2]

I think the push for total equality is hurting women to some extent...

Mothers have a some what terrible choice these days...

Stay at home or be a working mum...

People tell my wife she should be at home with the kids... People tell our friend who stays at home with the kids she should go out and get a job....

Both of them are made to feel shit... A mothers role in society is all over the place these day and women are attacked no matter what they do... At least in the past it was very clearly set out.

Its women on women who are responsible for most of the nasty stuff. I don't think women know what role they should / want to play half the time...

[kaosmark2]

but it all gets fucked up with the way women (and men) are portrayed as something unattainable, simply to try and con you into buying more stuff...... "oooh look, she/he wants me to have sex with me, if I buy that thing"... and then men and women want to be like that 'thing' in real life... it's confusing at the very least...

what men and/or women are attracted to is anything and everything... some men like fat women, some like women to piss on them, etc etc... there is no ideal.. I'm attracted to my wife because I love her. I could be attracted to my sister if she wasn't my sister. Some people are attracted to their siblings....

and so on

[feral chile]

but it all gets fucked up with the way women (and men) are portrayed as something unattainable, simply to try and con you into buying more stuff...... "oooh look, she/he wants me to have sex with me, if I buy that thing"... and then men and women want to be like that 'thing' in real life... it's confusing at the very least...

what men and/or women are attracted to is anything and everything... some men like fat women, some like women to piss on them, etc etc... there is no ideal.. I'm attracted to my wife because I love her. I could be attracted to my sister if she wasn't my sister. Some people are attracted to their siblings....

and so on

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

'advertisers will just use whatever works to gain popularity for their product.'

So very true - meerkats for example.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

To be fair I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion. This is not the 80's or 90's or whatever decade you wish to think about. People have moved on and grown. I think you need to be asking the young ladies involved as to why they are there, as well as the reactions of the men. Give people their due I think. Not everyone is an unthinking automoton. Sex has been used for decades to sell, but the people they are selling to now have changed dramatically since the '50's. Give people their due. From my experience of younger people they are not as shallow as one would perceive.

We live in a World where young women look at Jordan as a role model. To me that is fair enough. I may detest her but she is worth millions and has used her talents and attributes to the max. Who has exploited Who? Young ladies flashing their norks off may give men a wrong message, but does it? Seriously what is the harm? Does it cause men to demean their partners? Thats unlikely, I would presume it would give men more of a appreciation for their partners? Does it, along with porn, cause men to be sexually violent/rape? There is no evidence to prove that link at all. At the end of the day men that thought low of women will still think low of them, and the same for men that think on an egalitarian view.

I love women, and I can seem as a real lech. I have admired many cleavages of many efesters (female and male), and I have told them at the time. Some circles would call be a male chauvenist but I am hoping that no one here would.

[feral chile]

To be fair I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion. This is not the 80's or 90's or whatever decade you wish to think about. People have moved on and grown. I think you need to be asking the young ladies involved as to why they are there, as well as the reactions of the men. Give people their due I think. Not everyone is an unthinking automoton. Sex has been used for decades to sell, but the people they are selling to now have changed dramatically since the '50's. Give people their due. From my experience of younger people they are not as shallow as one would perceive.

We live in a World where young women look at Jordan as a role model. To me that is fair enough. I may detest her but she is worth millions and has used her talents and attributes to the max. Who has exploited Who? Young ladies flashing their norks off may give men a wrong message, but does it? Seriously what is the harm? Does it cause men to demean their partners? Thats unlikely, I would presume it would give men more of a appreciation for their partners? Does it, along with porn, cause men to be sexually violent/rape? There is no evidence to prove that link at all. At the end of the day men that thought low of women will still think low of them, and the same for men that think on an egalitarian view.

I love women, and I can seem as a real lech. I have admired many cleavages of many efesters (female and male), and I have told them at the time. Some circles would call be a male chauvenist but I am hoping that no one here would.

[feral chile]

To be fair I think the whole issue has been blown out of proportion. This is not the 80's or 90's or whatever decade you wish to think about. People have moved on and grown. I think you need to be asking the young ladies involved as to why they are there, as well as the reactions of the men. Give people their due I think. Not everyone is an unthinking automoton. Sex has been used for decades to sell, but the people they are selling to now have changed dramatically since the '50's. Give people their due. From my experience of younger people they are not as shallow as one would perceive.

We live in a World where young women look at Jordan as a role model. To me that is fair enough. I may detest her but she is worth millions and has used her talents and attributes to the max. Who has exploited Who? Young ladies flashing their norks off may give men a wrong message, but does it? Seriously what is the harm? Does it cause men to demean their partners? Thats unlikely, I would presume it would give men more of a appreciation for their partners? Does it, along with porn, cause men to be sexually violent/rape? There is no evidence to prove that link at all. At the end of the day men that thought low of women will still think low of them, and the same for men that think on an egalitarian view.

I love women, and I can seem as a real lech. I have admired many cleavages of many efesters (female and male), and I have told them at the time. Some circles would call be a male chauvenist but I am hoping that no one here would.

[feral chile]

that seems like an un-naturally optimistic take on it.

I have no problem with anyone celebrating their sexuality, but as with most things, once money

gets involved, motives get confused

[LondonTom]

Personally as a nerd, I despise this image that we are all sex starved maniacs that buy anything cos of a pretty girl actually talking to us and find a case of reverse sexism I am actually quite imitated by these models being around the gadgets...would rather talk about the actual tech with the people behind it than any slick marketer of any gender ... (Apart from SassiBob, she can talk and sell me tech all day, any day )

So ban them !! Save nerd embarrassment!!!!

[feral chile]

Personally as a nerd, I despise this image that we are all sex starved maniacs that buy anything cos of a pretty girl actually talking to us and find a case of reverse sexism I am actually quite imitated by these models being around the gadgets...would rather talk about the actual tech with the people behind it than any slick marketer of any gender ... (Apart from SassiBob, she can talk and sell me tech all day, any day )

So ban them !! Save nerd embarrassment!!!!