sometimes, I just feel like crying......

[fred quimby]

Nothing is ever "just because its a rule"

[fred quimby]

It's not a rule, it's an understanding.

[feral chile]

tony I get what you mean, I did much the same thing, my kids think they grew up without any rules, but they were living by one of the (in my opinion) primary rules - do no harm, the other one being keep safe.

So throwing food around would come under that rule (or value, however you want to label it) and I would have talked through the consequences with them. (who has to clean it up, waste of resources, the hurt feelings of the person who had prepared the food etc.)

I don't think certain categories of people deserve more respect than others, but I think you and barry may be talking at cross purposes. I believe in being respectful towards everyone, which isn't the same thing as being subservient to your betters.

A set of values are a set of rules, really, aren't they? But the broader the rule/value, the more scope for interpretation, the less feeling of external control, and the more self-governing your children become. They have a greater sense of autonomy, which is vital for developing ethical behaviour.

Edited January 31, 2012 by feral chile

[feral chile]

It feels like your both trying to the snobby (or hippy / new age thing is probably a better explanation where you say are approach is more "progressive" and fancy while actually doing nothing different") parent thing...

But fair play to both of you.. No doubt whatever you did, whatever approached it worked for you...

I just don't see what your doing different than us...

Edited January 31, 2012 by feral chile

[feral chile]

Don't go running away with the idea that a liberal parenting style results in a free for all. It's more that we see our role as that of guidance rather than authority figures. Helping children to make the right decisions. They need to be learning how to decide what to do, and we're meant to be teaching them to be responsible. You can only really be responsible for your own decisions though, not because someone else has told you to do something.

Edited January 31, 2012 by feral chile

[feral chile]

as you said, a set of values suits it better.

I never really wanted to 'control' my kids. It was hardly ever necessary... I remember my daughter, when she was very young, coming up to me, in front of another parent, asking me if she could have some sweets... I said "no, we're just about to have dinner"... a simple explanation which she understood, and she went off happy. The other parent was dumbfounded... she said

"how do you do that?" I said, "what, say no?" ... and that was it. It seems to be a fairly common problem for a lot of parents, the not being able to say 'no' thing

[fred quimby]

as you said, a set of values suits it better.

I never really wanted to 'control' my kids. It was hardly ever necessary... I remember my daughter, when she was very young, coming up to me, in front of another parent, asking me if she could have some sweets... I said "no, we're just about to have dinner"... a simple explanation which she understood, and she went off happy. The other parent was dumbfounded... she said

"how do you do that?" I said, "what, say no?" ... and that was it. It seems to be a fairly common problem for a lot of parents, the not being able to say 'no' thing

[feral chile]

I do that stuff...

I think we are just getting stuck on a point of "language" rather than "mindset"...

[feral chile]

aaanywaaay....

kind of side-tracked (but not)...

I have no definitive answers to anything (how very humble of me... ). I contemplate this stuff all the time... it's quite possible I could do with some 'help' ( )... I just think a more open minded approach to life, in general, NOT categorising and stereotyping as much as possible, would go some way to making 'things' - in general - a bit better.

[kaosmark2]

I would say I am a "friend" to my child... and we are "friends".... but are friends don't have authority over us, its not their job to parent and raise us, so its not quite the right way of putting what we are to each other... Its a subset element of our relationship no doubt, but its the wrong way of describing our relationship I think...

[fred quimby]

and not doing what my mum always did, which was to say "we're going now" and then spend another half an hour chatting with someone! (sooooo frustrating... I still remember it )

[feral chile]

There's a very common concept with many people which is that you shouldn't be friends with your kids. It somehow diminishes your role as a parent, and means you're not doing your job properly.

I think it's a load of shit... I don't see how or why you shouldn't be friends (as well as being a parent)

[feral chile]

absolutely...

I mean, my eldest daughter thinks the eighties was a good decade for music! Can you believe it?

[kaosmark2]

I only really have one close friend... The rest can go to hell and back for all I care...

The examples above aren't at odds with what I said... Parenting is all that stuff and a heck of a lot more... Parenting involves being a friend with your child but so much more...

Saying you are "friends" with your child is really a bit of weak statement I think... So much of a weak statement that you can attack it by saying your shouldn't be a "friend" to your kid to be a good parent... You should be so much more than that...

I spent most my life being let down by "friends"... I suppose its warped my feelings on it but I do consider myself "friends" with my kid. For example, tomorrow we are spending the afternoon eating rubbish food and playing in the soft play centre together Good times

[Rufus Gwertigan]

There's a very common concept with many people which is that you shouldn't be friends with your kids. It somehow diminishes your role as a parent, and means you're not doing your job properly.

I think it's a load of shit... I don't see how or why you shouldn't be friends (as well as being a parent)

[grumpyhack]

I think values are the key thing.

I remember my youngest daughter waking up one night at about midnight and calling me into her room - she was about eight at the time.

"Dad.... Mrs Thatcher...can't the Queen sack her?" she asked.

It turned out she'd seen something on the TV news that evening about homelessness and felt so angry that it had been churning around in her mind.

Whether the Queen had the right to dismiss an elected Prime Minister seemed a bit of a complex one for that time of night so I managed to get her off to sleep. But it was a great conversation the next morning over breakfast. I felt so proud of her.

[kaosmark2]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/9056914/Top-Totty-beer-banned-from-House-of-Commons-bar-in-case-if-offends-women.html

Can't really say I agree with this. if you're going to stop advertising showing women in bikinis, then shouldn't you stop it showing topless men? I know this is the house of commons, but it's just a beer that's on sale using it's normal badge.

[kaosmark2]

The thing is.... it's a cartoon pic, it's not porn. Do these MPs moan about virtually every advert on TV? Are they trying to push through anti-sexualised-advertising legislation?

I agree that the way sex and sexuality are portrayed in advertising is unhealthy and perpetuating a few society ills, but I can't see how an image like that is harming anyone?

[eFestivals]

The thing is.... it's a cartoon pic, it's not porn. Do these MPs moan about virtually every advert on TV? Are they trying to push through anti-sexualised-advertising legislation?

I agree that the way sex and sexuality are portrayed in advertising is unhealthy and perpetuating a few society ills, but I can't see how an image like that is harming anyone?

Really?

The sexualised ads we get on TV nowadays used to be not allowed in law. And funnily enough, along with the 'liberalisation' of these laws has come the sexualisation of children, a greater sexual exploitation of women, and a greater feeling amongst women to live up to the sexual stereotypes that are pushed at them from every direction nowadays.

Yeah, it's all harmless and has zero effect.

[kaosmark2]

Really?

The sexualised ads we get on TV nowadays used to be not allowed in law. And funnily enough, along with the 'liberalisation' of these laws has come the sexualisation of children, a greater sexual exploitation of women, and a greater feeling amongst women to live up to the sexual stereotypes that are pushed at them from every direction nowadays.

Yeah, it's all harmless and has zero effect.

[kaosmark2]

Specially considering its an adult product and children are not usally allowed around the bar area in pubs....

[eFestivals]

I agree generally. A cartoon pic on a beer label isn't the same extent.

it's still a part of the same trend.

In isolation very litle of it can be reasonably identifed as harmful. That doesn't stop the combined effect from being very powerful.

[kaosmark2]

it's still a part of the same trend.

In isolation very litle of it can be reasonably identifed as harmful. That doesn't stop the combined effect from being very powerful.

[kaosmark2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-16869029

to counter the idea that all women involved don't have a problem with it...

Danns, 28, regrets that her time as a lap dancer made her a harder, more cynical person.

She admits she was initially seduced by the notion that modern lap dancing was a safe, secure expression of female empowerment. In fact, she says, her experience was defined by the damage it gradually inflicted to her self-esteem and the regular verbal, and sometimes physical abuse she received from customers.

"There's a generation which is used to a culture in which it's normal that everything has become a commodity," she says.

"Some men come in and they love women. But others use it to vent the bitterness and frustration that they have against women. They aren't being challenged about it and that's damaging for everyone."

[kaosmark2]

do you think women are naturally inclined to dance with poles...?