"Secularism is a religion...Atheism is a religion"

[Kyelo]

Love this picture of The Little Guy. He looks so playful. So full of mischief.

[Ed209]

PS:....

If it's about supporting wider personal belief systems then those complining pretend-Christians should have no problem with this "ban" (which isn't a ban). After all, atheism is no less of a personal belief system than Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddism, Janism, Taoism, etc, etc, etc.

[Kyelo]

His religious views are very unclear... Most believed he disliked Christianity and only used it for whatever was his next political goal...

[eFestivals]

You're right. Atheism is a personal belief system just like the religions you mention. There should be an acceptance of all of them. People have the right to believe what they want to believe.

Yup.

But people also have a right to an opinion on other belief systems too, which covers what you say in this part....

Then why is it in this thread you continue to elevate your own belief system above those of others. Branding all religious people as deluded nutjobs and morons. In my eyes, you use these boards to preach your own personal rhetoric of showing intolerance to religion. If your problem with religion is they themselves are intolerant then you're fighting fire with fire and in my opinion only weakening your stance.

No, I give intolerance back to the intolerant. This whole thread only exists because of the intolerance of Christians to those who are not Christians.

I am simply pointing that fact out. If they live and let live then I'm very happy for them to continue in their delusions if that's what they wish to do.

[strummer77]

Love this picture of The Little Guy. He looks so playful. So full of mischief.

Edited February 14, 2012 by strummer77

[The Nal]

My favourite is this one. Stylish.

http://resources1.ne...3017-hitler.jpg

[Rufus Gwertigan]

My favourite is this one. Stylish.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/02/09/1226267/073017-hitler.jpg

[The Nal]

Why Adolf, is that a luger in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

[Ed209]

Yup.

But people also have a right to an opinion on other belief systems too, which covers what you say in this part....

No, I give intolerance back to the intolerant. This whole thread only exists because of the intolerance of Christians to those who are not Christians.

I am simply pointing that fact out. If they live and let live then I'm very happy for them to continue in their delusions if that's what they wish to do.

[5co77ie]

I notice the snow melts around the little devil

[eFestivals]

The intolerance of *some* christians. In the same way that *some* non religious people can be equally intollerant.

I'm able to tolerate them just as long as they give the same tolerance to me.

As soon as they start demanding special privileges for themselves (as they were in Bideford, for example) they cease to be tolerant and becoming unreasonably imposing (which is not tolerance) - and I'll tell them where to shove it.

I wonder when us atheists are going to be given the privilege of waking up everyone withion a two mile radius on a Sunday morning, every Sunday morning. And the same at midnight once a year too.

I say that to point out that they still have a huge number of special privileges which is their intolerance in action.

[Kyelo]

The intolerance of *some* christians. In the same way that *some* non religious people can be equally intollerant.

On a broader note, so much done in the name of Christianity has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. You just have to look at the republican party. Jesus (if he existed) would have been horrified by what they believe. I barely count these people as christians. People who genuinely follow the teachings of jesus, and not some screwed up version of christianity based on old testiment nonsense are, in my opinion, some of the most tolerant people you're likely to meet. because thats what jesus taught.

Homosexuality is a tricky issue. Some Christian groups are slowly catching up to societies overall changing view of homosexuality. Times and views change, these are very old institutions though and it takes time for these things to filter through - as it did with woman priests. Some are adapting quicker than others. While others are hardly adapting at all e.g. catholics. However gay people would be warmly welcomed at pretty much all CofE churches across the country, because while these churches may not necessarily agree with homosexuality, they're not silly enough to thinking its evil and the work of the devil and would welcome them to their congregation. I don't think it will be long before priests can be practicing homosexuals (they already allow openly gay priests - just they're not allowed to practice).

Jesus basically said not a lot more than be excellent to eachother. If everyone did that then the world would be a pretty sweet place.

[Ed209]

Fair enough. We don't actually know what specific teachings Jesus was refering to though, as the scriptures have been so warped and bent through history. Thanks to early jewish and catholic faiths, the Old testament in its modern form is probably very different to the original scriptures that Jesus was refering to. Jesus' teachings in the new testament are much more filled with love and peace and tollerance, and in cases contradictory to stuff in the old testament so something is not quite right.

Although its probably all a load of bull, and the evidence that Jesus was a real person is rather flimsy anyway.

There's a huge number of christians who won't accept the old testament as anything other than bed time stories. Our attention is bought to the ones who believe its every word as they also happen to be the ones who shout the loudest.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I'm able to tolerate them just as long as they give the same tolerance to me.

As soon as they start demanding special privileges for themselves (as they were in Bideford, for example) they cease to be tolerant and becoming unreasonably imposing (which is not tolerance) - and I'll tell them where to shove it.

I wonder when us atheists are going to be given the privilege of waking up everyone withion a two mile radius on a Sunday morning, every Sunday morning. And the same at midnight once a year too.

I say that to point out that they still have a huge number of special privileges which is their intolerance in action.

[kaosmark2]

Probably because most Christians are not intrusive.... They run the local coffe shop, maybe the local nursery, drug, allochol and debt support groups, give to charty, and maybe come around and sing some songs at Christmas....

The sort Neil would rather not talk about....

Edited February 15, 2012 by kaosmark2

[Kyelo]

Never said atheists don't...

And now we are back talking about the Catholic Church and condoms...

Religious debates on here are so fucking boring... I always find it staggering for example that people look at the Catholic Church "banning" condoms as the reason HIV has spread in Africa. Conveniently missing out the rest of the messages in the bible that talk about one man and one women forming an entity which should not be broke, and if the rest of the messages where followed then it self limits the spread of aids arguably as much as condoms. Whats the chances of someone getting aids if a guy has sex with the same girl there whole life ?

Someone say oh I am catholic so I can't used condoms... Butting fucking everyone women in a 100 mile radius as I feel is ok... Well any dickhead can surely see the logic breakdown there...

But you can't and the same old narrow debate is pushed. Catholic institution aren't spreading aids in Africa, people with little understanding of their own faith are...

I don't like the Catholic faith for many reasons. There stance on abortion, homesexuals, condoms, babies going to hell etc etc etc are all up their. But I have enough brain cells in me to look beyond the bullshit attacks out there...

[Rufus Gwertigan]

It is a rare breed to find any person in any culture who has only ever slept with one person. The Vatican' stance makes the issue much harder to solve.

Also about the messages that Jesus spread, yes there are nice ones(which are more decent human nature to me, without the need for god)but what about the likes of Luke 19:27? "But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me." and the likes? I suppose your answer will be along the lines of-;"Your taking it out of context, it needs to be looked at as a parable." etc but who decides what to heed and how to read it? Anyone can use it to support anything, good or bad.

It's that damn book that made me an atheist, If I followed it to a tee I'd have been hung, drawn and quartered a long time ago.

[eFestivals]

Probably because most Christians are not intrusive.... They run the local coffe shop, maybe the local nursery, drug, allochol and debt support groups, give to charty, and maybe come around and sing some songs at Christmas....

The sort Neil would rather not talk about....

what's to talk about when they're doing nothing different to anyone else?

-----

Meanwhile, Liz has told 'her' ministers that they're fucking insane. At least someone in the chain has their head screwed on, rather than reverting to unthinking-moron mode. Sometimes I have to give the monarchy its due.

[eFestivals]

You do realise how religious groups rich/able-to-not-have-to-be-working people disproportional contribute to charity and offering of such services...

corrected for you.

As ever, you're a sucker for anything which is spun at you, completely unable to look behind the spun headline as for why.

[eFestivals]

Anyway, as the head of the Church of England is telling her own moronic bishops and her own moronic ministers and the likes of Barry Fish to stop being discriminatory morons, what more is there to say about this subject?

Those morons have been holding her up as the justification for their words. She's told them they're 100% wrong.

Well done Liz. You clearly have a fully working brain behind that gormless smile. You've just gained some respect from me.

[eFestivals]

When is the last time you was in a church or around the people you like to slag off so much ?

I spent 15 years attending Church. I'm not talking from ignorance.

The fact that that was now decades ago means nothing ... unless you're going to tell me that everyone is now worshipping a different god but using the same grouping titles to do it?

I think you are sucker for your own dogma and preconceived ideas...

Or alternatively, I have my eyes open while yours are shut?

As you're aware, Dave Moron has been banging on about 'The Big Society', and of how these wonderful Christian types can patronisingly give the rest of the population everything they need. As an example of this, he holds up the libraries that have recently changed over to being run by people from the community.

But funnily enough, the only places where that's actually happening is in untypical rich areas, where there are a very large and disproportionate number of people (mainly 'housewives' and people who have been lucky enough to retire on huge pensions aged just 50) who don't have to work because of their wealth.

And when the people running those library services are asked whether Dave Moron is right, and the sdame idea can work in every part of the country, they're smart enough to realise that it can't, because most other people are far too busy just simply trying to get by.

So even the types of people who are providing thew things you're going on about are far smarter than you are Barry Fish. They realise that it's not "Christian values" which enable them to give to the community but their wealth.

[eFestivals]

Yeah because being dragged along as a kid gives such a good fucking insight into modern Christian worship and activities...

You have a go at me, claiming I'm making presumpotions, then make whoopping ones of your own. You really are patheticly priceless.

There were a greater amount of community activities by Christians in the past than now you moron. So if anything I'm giving them greater credit for that than they deserve now.

And guess what? They were able to give those greater activities back then because of a greater amount of time available within their congregations - not because of greater wealth back then, but because of a different-shaped society where far fewer women worked (particularly within the more-wealthy which disproprtionately make up Church congregations).

The facts demolish all that you're saying. The Christians with a fully working brain agree with me and not stupid you.

[eFestivals]

There are very few people in this country who couldn't spare something... 10p. £1, £10... Everyone can find a bit...

and they do. The amount of charitable giving is (proprtionately) increasing, not falling - while the number of practicing religious people continues to fall.

Within the church the vast majority contribute.. The poorest lady in our local congregation (and she is about as poor as they come) still manages to chuck a £1 in...

No shit sherlock.

Just about all club members hand over their subs.

The giving you're talking about in Church is not for outside causes, it's to support that 'club' - and they actually fail to financially support that club. The CoE is sustained by the massive weralth they've accumilated in the past, and not by the contributions they get now.

Christians and other faith group do that much more than others...

Just about all club members hand over their subs.

[eFestivals]

PS - the Christian Churches are completely shit at giving money to help others in comparison to the likes of Muslims.

The average income amongst practicing Muslims is far lower than it is amongst practicing Christians, and proportionately they give massively more - and to outside causes, not as subs to their club.

Edited February 16, 2012 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

More lies... More bollocks...

Nothing of what you say matches up with the reality of my local churches... I will leave wider presumptions to you...

What I'm saying on the wider angle is NOT presumption, but solid fact that even the leaderships of the various Christian churches in the country recognise and say.

I can only guess that you live in an anomily that's full of spectacularly righteous (but also, if you're typical, also stupid) people.

-------------------

But anyway, the head of the Chruch you attend has said you're wrong about the issue which started this thread. She's said that the ban on forced worship is correct.

I might happily pay my 64p towards her wages this year.