"Secularism is a religion...Atheism is a religion"

[Rufus Gwertigan]

corrected for you.

As ever, you're a sucker for anything which is spun at you, completely unable to look behind the spun headline as for why.

[eFestivals]

The drawing back to you holding up Muslims over Christians ( I already know one of your comments is cast iron wrong about Muslims unless you think mosques build themselves ) just goes to show while you do clearly have issue with religions you have a particular hateful attitude in particular towards Christians... and you sit there wondering why the feel "attacked"...

Muslims and Christians do the same thing... They tied their money... The money is then given to the maintenance of the "churches", paying employees etc and good causes...

http://www.unitedsha...udi-arabia.aspx

The money given directly to the CoE each year does not pay for the basic running of the CoE, and hasn't done for nearly 50 years - that's before getting to any 'outside activities'. The CoE only survives financially via the huge amount of money it has from the past that is invested in the stock market and the like (and they don't [or at least didn't] much care if they make that money by selling weapons of war, either).

Muslims more than pay for the running of their churches. Nope, the mosques didn't build themselves, they've been built and paid for by direct contributions - which costs much more than the maintainence of existing Churches by the CoE which today's contributions don't (along with the whole running of the church) cover.

And beyond that, Muslims give massive amounts to other charitable causes - way beyond what practicing Christians in this country manage, despite the much lower number. Check with the Charity Commission!

[eFestivals]

Isn't it funny how stating the truth about Christians against the unfactual bollocks that Barry spouts is classed as an 'attack'.

Liz has said Barry is wrong. I guess she's attacking her own Church? PMSL.

[eFestivals]

You said it again ? I never said what you claim I said... Your a twisting moron!

Its not even worth tackling your misunderstanding about church finances...

If I'm "misunderstanding about church finances", perhaps you can explain why just about every year for 50 years the CoE has required to dip into its capital funds to enable it to financially survive - despite also having sold off a huge number of churches and land during that time?

If I've got it wrong, then you'll be able to tell me who within the Church has been stealing that billions of pounds of capital they've had to use?

Can't tell me? You can't tell me because you're wrong, as the CoE accounts and countless newspaper articles can prove to you.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

isn't a lot of that (social housing) because they owned the land in the first place?

[kaosmark2]

Never said atheists don't...

And now we are back talking about the Catholic Church and condoms...

Religious debates on here are so fucking boring... I always find it staggering for example that people look at the Catholic Church "banning" condoms as the reason HIV has spread in Africa. Conveniently missing out the rest of the messages in the bible that talk about one man and one women forming an entity which should not be broke, and if the rest of the messages where followed then it self limits the spread of aids arguably as much as condoms. Whats the chances of someone getting aids if a guy has sex with the same girl there whole life ?

Someone say oh I am catholic so I can't used condoms... Butting fucking everyone women in a 100 mile radius as I feel is ok... Well any dickhead can surely see the logic breakdown there...

But you can't and the same old narrow debate is pushed. Catholic institution aren't spreading aids in Africa, people with little understanding of their own faith are...

I don't like the Catholic faith for many reasons. There stance on abortion, homesexuals, condoms, babies going to hell etc etc etc are all up their. But I have enough brain cells in me to look beyond the bullshit attacks out there...

[kaosmark2]

Anyway, as the head of the Church of England is telling her own moronic bishops and her own moronic ministers and the likes of Barry Fish to stop being discriminatory morons, what more is there to say about this subject?

Those morons have been holding her up as the justification for their words. She's told them they're 100% wrong.

Well done Liz. You clearly have a fully working brain behind that gormless smile. You've just gained some respect from me.

[kaosmark2]

As you're aware, Dave Moron has been banging on about 'The Big Society', and of how these wonderful Christian types can patronisingly give the rest of the population everything they need. As an example of this, he holds up the libraries that have recently changed over to being run by people from the community.

But funnily enough, the only places where that's actually happening is in untypical rich areas, where there are a very large and disproportionate number of people (mainly 'housewives' and people who have been lucky enough to retire on huge pensions aged just 50) who don't have to work because of their wealth.

And when the people running those library services are asked whether Dave Moron is right, and the sdame idea can work in every part of the country, they're smart enough to realise that it can't, because most other people are far too busy just simply trying to get by.

So even the types of people who are providing thew things you're going on about are far smarter than you are Barry Fish. They realise that it's not "Christian values" which enable them to give to the community but their wealth.

[eFestivals]

What exactly did Liz say? I can't find an article.

The Queen has spoken of her belief that the Church of England has "a duty to protect the free practice of all faiths" in the UK.

In a speech at London's Lambeth Palace, she argued the Church's role was not to "defend Anglicanism to the exclusion of other religions".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17047885

[kaosmark2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17047885

[Kyelo]

You do realise how religious groups disproportional contribute to charity and offering of such services...

[eFestivals]

Cheers.

And bloody hell! When did she gain the ability to speak sense?

I know, it's great isn't it?

It's a real slap in the face for the regilous bigots who were using her name to justify their religious intolerence agenda.

All praise to her for speaking sense.

[kaosmark2]

That is the problem with saying someone "implied it"... I have no defence against it. If I mean something I will say it. Try taking people at face value more instead of wrongly reading around the edges.

[eFestivals]

it's a shame that that Liz story doesn't have comments enabled. I think I'd die laughing at the religious bigots trying to get their head around what she's said.

[kaosmark2]

it's a shame that that Liz story doesn't have comments enabled. I think I'd die laughing at the religious bigots trying to get their head around what she's said.

[Kyelo]

Any faith is a design for life... You are meant to follow all of it...

[kaosmark2]

I have no interest in defending myself against things I haven't said and have been implanted in my mouth. The failure of doing this is yours and yours alone....

[kaosmark2]

I honestly don't know... You tell me...

The concept of man & wife being joined together exclusively etc... I would of thought so to be honest.

There are courses always some extermists of varying degrees who abuse their positions etc.

[strummer77]

what's the point of any religion that has 'rules' that are disregarded?

Edited February 16, 2012 by strummer77

[kaosmark2]

If people pick and choose at a religion they're only lying to themselves. Cowardice I suppose: they want to believe there's something there but they don't want to give up everything.

It doesn't work really. Except for stuff like 'it's open to interpretation' bollocks. I suppose you either have to believe that the Bible is the unadulterated world of God or you don't.

[Kyelo]

One of the important parts of the bible is not to judge... Its not up to us to make the judgement who goes to heaven... So I don't believe that is true...

Of course in this colourful world everyone reads the bible differently... It of course contradicts itself and we know it has an history showing its been interfered with...

The bible should be a Christians start in exploring faith, not its end (my personal feelings)... but hey, there are some who totally commit to it etc...

[strummer77]

Explaining contradictions.... translations....

Ultimately, using it as justification for belief and behaviour.

[kaosmark2]

On a rather seperate point, do people think the decline in religion will continue, or is it just a dip?

[eFestivals]

I am not a Christian just to be clear...

and yet you attend a Christian church and hang out with Christians as though you're a Christian.

Just out of interest have you told all those people that you're not a Christian?

If you have, what do they make of what you do with them?

And what do you do when they pray &/or start banging on about "Christ the saviour" and "Christ the son of God"?

[kaosmark2]

I can think of isolated situation where it could yes... Going outside of that I am not sure if it could effect on everybody...

What you looking for ? I don't know the answer to be honest...

Only having sex with your wife is a very good way of protecting yourself from aids. You don't really need to go into much detail than that really... Obviously its not a total protection... I can think of other ways you can get infected but one would assume the biggest transmission is due to sex