Tesco getting free workers

[lost]

Nick Clegg on the news last night said this scheme was always optional, so has the guardian fucked up again?

[Katster]

Sorry I thought you had...

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Nick Clegg on the news last night said this scheme was always optional, so has the guardian fucked up again?

[Katster]

I wasn't so much of an assumption than you actually mentioning it a couple of days ago

[Rufus Gwertigan]

You shouldn't assume so much. Just because I was employed doesn't mean I still am.

I am though, for the record , but they are currently making life so very difficult for me that walking out is getting harder and harder not to do.

Currently applying for anything and everything I can but need to earn a minimum of what I am earning currently or else I would struggle to keep my flat

[feral chile]

You shouldn't assume so much. Just because I was employed doesn't mean I still am.

I am though, for the record , but they are currently making life so very difficult for me that walking out is getting harder and harder not to do.

Currently applying for anything and everything I can but need to earn a minimum of what I am earning currently or else I would struggle to keep my flat

[Katster]

hang on in there until something better comes along, don't let them drive you out.

hope your job hunting bears fruit in the form of greater opportunities for a happy career.

[feral chile]

Lots of politics I can't even go into but I am trying my hardest not to be forced out.

I am actually trying to get back in to retail, rather than continuing in pastoral support. There is not much opportunity for me to progress in my current role and I never thought it would be so but I was treated far more fairly and much more like a human being at tesco than I currently am being at this place

[Snufflebutt]

I have to wonder if we will get to a situation where there will be whole swathes of industries which pay absolutely nothing at all whilst a small number of people at the top cream the profits. For example journalism - many people are quite happy to work for free writing stuff to get experience. Its entirely conceivable that job losses at newspapers have been offset by many very capable interns working for free. Same could well happen to shelf stacking at Tescos I suppose. It's a very slippery slope. In principle I'm not dead against the idea but even entry level jobs at places like Tesco are like hen's teeth - I've been told that the only realistic way to get a job at a supermarket is if its a new opening.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Apparently the sanctions element of the scheme have been dropped.

[kaosmark2]

Apparently the sanctions element of the scheme have been dropped.

[gary1979666]

Isn't one of the main complaints from employers that the young don't have any/enough experience. I know that when I was looking for my first job, I had that thrown back at me a fair few times. Why wouldn't the unemployed want to go into these schemes - it'll hopefully improve their chances of getting a different job further down the line. OK shelf stacking isn't the most inspiring job, but it does all count. From an interviewer perspective, regardless of the job, I'd rather someone did something with their time out of work - be it voluntary work, work experience like this, etc.

[kaosmark2]

Isn't one of the main complaints from employers that the young don't have any/enough experience. I know that when I was looking for my first job, I had that thrown back at me a fair few times. Why wouldn't the unemployed want to go into these schemes - it'll hopefully improve their chances of getting a different job further down the line. OK shelf stacking isn't the most inspiring job, but it does all count. From an interviewer perspective, regardless of the job, I'd rather someone did something with their time out of work - be it voluntary work, work experience like this, etc.

[gary1979666]

Yep, you want it all for you. It's not something I'd not realised.

Which is why there's nothing for others, and that's where all of society's problems come from.

It's not just you of course, but everyone with your mindset of me me me and only me is what is fucking up the world. There is only so much to go around, and if you have it all yourself then others are losing out as a consequence.

[eFestivals]

Isn't one of the main complaints from employers that the young don't have any/enough experience. I know that when I was looking for my first job, I had that thrown back at me a fair few times. Why wouldn't the unemployed want to go into these schemes - it'll hopefully improve their chances of getting a different job further down the line. OK shelf stacking isn't the most inspiring job, but it does all count. From an interviewer perspective, regardless of the job, I'd rather someone did something with their time out of work - be it voluntary work, work experience like this, etc.

Does Tesco benefit and profit from the work these people give them?

Yes they do.

So they should reward those people for their work.

It's that simple.

[kaosmark2]

But Neil, if all earnings were smoothed out then what's is the incentive for people to improve? I appreciate at the top end it gets a bit silly - bankers, footballers, etc, but the likes of Barry, myself and lots of other people, we go above and beyond at work to afford that extra holiday or Sky and the self actualisation (if you go with Maslow's hierarchy)

A world where whatever you do, you get the same, will end with a lot off people who would normally go the extra mile, going meh! From companies where I have worked, incentive schemes on pay and bonus for all levels (from 10k people to those in the ivory six figure towers) work and push the business forward - generating growth for the country as a whole. That's what we need to encourage.

[eFestivals]

But Neil, if all earnings were smoothed out then what's is the incentive for people to improve? I appreciate at the top end it gets a bit silly - bankers, footballers, etc, but the likes of Barry, myself and lots of other people, we go above and beyond at work to afford that extra holiday or Sky and the self actualisation (if you go with Maslow's hierarchy)

A world where whatever you do, you get the same, will end with a lot off people who would normally go the extra mile, going meh! From companies where I have worked, incentive schemes on pay and bonus for all levels (from 10k people to those in the ivory six figure towers) work and push the business forward - generating growth for the country as a whole. That's what we need to encourage.

You like Barry see what I've said as something entirely different to what I've said.

Nowhere have I said "everyone should be paid the same". I'm simply saying that the differential between the better paid and the low paid needs narrowing.

As for the "going the extra mile", you're confusing yourself as being something special. If you don't think that the low paid don't go the extra mile you're massively kidding yourself. And unlike you they don't go that extra mile with the expectation of extra financial reward, they go that extra mile just to ensure they're able to stand still by keeping their job.

Think i'm wrong? Then I suggest you dig out the figures for the amount of unpaid overtime that is expected of the poorly paid nowadays, and how the expectations on them to do that have increased hugely over the past decades.

Someone posted a link yesterday in one of the threads like this (perhaps not this one) of the sorts of bollocks the rich come out with as justification for their huge wages. You're speaking the same bollocks as they do.

[eFestivals]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-things-rich-people-need-to-stop-saying/

Number 5.

It's the idea that people earning 40k are twice as talented/work twice as hard as people earning 20k. It's not an issue of there being a difference it's how large it is.

Thanks - that was the link I just referred to.

[gary1979666]

http://www.cracked.c...to-stop-saying/

Number 5.

It's the idea that people earning 40k are twice as talented/work twice as hard as people earning 20k. It's not an issue of there being a difference it's how large it is.

[eFestivals]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not meaning that those on lower incomes don't work hard - some don't work hard....but same is true for those on 40k too. So from the article, take a nurse on 20k and a software developer on 40k, for arguement's sake - I'm making no comment on the value to society of either of these jobs, but a hardworking nurse is more likely to put themselves in a position to get a matron (ok, my only knowledge of nursing is Carry on films) and be recognised, in the same way a lazy developer is less likely to get that promotion.

There is a disconnect between what public sector job and private sector jobs are paid and that's because they're run differently. Public sector needs to achieve value for money, so can't normally pay more than the going rate - a better nurse won't make more money for the hospital to pay them more. A private company is there to maximise shareholder wealth - so paying above market rates for someone who could generate even more income for the company is a wise investment. Similarly, the CSR side needs to be in place too - just look at the Tesco share price following all of this.

Yeah, so you've read standard capitalist theory. Who hasn't?

But it's bollocks, and the facts are out there to prove it's bollocks (eg: Fred Goodwin). It's simply a self-sustaining prophesy, where there's ever-increasing justification to increase the wages of those at the top and ever-increasing justification to drop the wages of those at the bottom - which is exactly what has happened over the past 30 years.

And guess what's also happened over that 30 years? Output has decreased against the supposed value of output, which is why money is being printed like there's no tomorrow to try and shore up the myth for a few more years.

Which all gets to prove that standard capitalist theory is fundamentally wrong, and things don't work in the way that is claimed. There's plenty of economists who've been shouting it from the rooftops and have the facts to back it up, but the powerful prefer to perpetuate the myths for their own enrichment.

[gary1979666]

You like Barry see what I've said as something entirely different to what I've said.

Nowhere have I said "everyone should be paid the same". I'm simply saying that the differential between the better paid and the low paid needs narrowing.

As for the "going the extra mile", you're confusing yourself as being something special. If you don't think that the low paid don't go the extra mile you're massively kidding yourself. And unlike you they don't go that extra mile with the expectation of extra financial reward, they go that extra mile just to ensure they're able to stand still by keeping their job.

Think i'm wrong? Then I suggest you dig out the figures for the amount of unpaid overtime that is expected of the poorly paid nowadays, and how the expectations on them to do that have increased hugely over the past decades.

Someone posted a link yesterday in one of the threads like this (perhaps not this one) of the sorts of bollocks the rich come out with as justification for their huge wages. You're speaking the same bollocks as they do.

[gary1979666]

Yeah, so you've read standard capitalist theory. Who hasn't?

But it's bollocks, and the facts are out there to prove it's bollocks (eg: Fred Goodwin). It's simply a self-sustaining prophesy, where there's ever-increasing justification to increase the wages of those at the top and ever-increasing justification to drop the wages of those at the bottom - which is exactly what has happened over the past 30 years.

And guess what's also happened over that 30 years? Output has decreased against the supposed value of output, which is why money is being printed like there's no tomorrow to try and shore up the myth for a few more years.

Which all gets to prove that standard capitalist theory is fundamentally wrong, and things don't work in the way that is claimed. There's plenty of economists who've been shouting it from the rooftops and have the facts to back it up, but the powerful prefer to perpetuate the myths for their own enrichment.

[eFestivals]

I would much rather the those doing the overtime were paid for it and rewarded for the dedication.

But they can't be - because split of the proportion of company money that's allocated to pay people which would cover their overtime has been stolen by those who wish to think themselves important and invaluable to the company.

The company makes the same percentage profit; the company has the same proportion going to wages ... but the workers (not the slackers) get told there's no money to pay them for the overtime they used to be paid for. Because the slackers called managers or whatever have taken it all.

That's today's version of capitalism as it really operates.

Those managers or whatever are doing less; the workers are doing more. Standard capitalist theory is proven wrong by this fact (and it is a fact, there's the numbers to back this up) but that standard capitalist theory is kept on being used to justify this robbery.

[kaosmark2]

So what's the solution? It's all very well say it's wrong, how do you solve it? Problem is the way companies are run is to look to the bottom line. If the government were to take a stand a say ok, NMW is to be increase, more tax on companies and the rich, etc etc, then a lot of the multinationals will just up sticks and our GDP gets hit, less tax goes in, and services get cut....back to square one.

[eFestivals]

So what's the solution?

The solution is very easy - the w*nkers have to realise they're w*nkers and give the money back.

Will they? Will they fuck. They'll keep on with the robbery cos it's all good for them, and they'll call the rest lazy scumbags more and more, deliberately blind to the fact that they hold a gun to people's heads.

This govt knows exactly what's going on - which is why ever law they pass is designed to step-by-step remove their accountability for the robbery. And the mugs keep on falling for it, grabbing on to all they can as theirs, rightfully theirs, earnt by them and just them when none of it is true.