Christenings

[kaosmark2]

How can you get a child christened and then expect them to believe you when you say you don't believe in god?

it's one thing to reject your parents' beliefs, but I can see a very confused kid coming out of this. On one hand you're legitimising the god belief, on the other you're denying it.

[nightcrawler13]

i had a briss, am I a Jew? no

Do I think my mother is a hypocrite for letting the crazy religious people in the family have their day of tradition, in return for not being hated? Nada

If you don't believe in the stuff they are talking about, why make such a big deal out of it?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Well he said it isn't, so I've gone on that basis.

I don't think I would be happy in a relationship where saying I didn't want to be a part of it would piss her off sufficiently for it to be offputting.

[feral chile]

i had a briss, am I a Jew? no

Do I think my mother is a hypocrite for letting the crazy religious people in the family have their day of tradition, in return for not being hated? Nada

If you don't believe in the stuff they are talking about, why make such a big deal out of it?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

That's a bit cynical. I'm a non believer, but I assume believers to be sincere in their belief, and I'd feel it was just wrong to exploit their belief for my own non-spiritual ends.

[nightcrawler13]

because you're bringing yourself into their group. If you don't believe in it, why do you feel so strongly that you need to pretend to be part of it?

I just think it's cyinical and as I've said, disrespectful to believers. Whether it's pretending to be part of a mainstream religious group or a more alternative one.

If your friends belonged to a cult, would you pretend to be initiated into it to be one of the lads? or so you could have the initiation party? or because it was traditional for your group?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

because you're bringing yourself into their group. If you don't believe in it, why do you feel so strongly that you need to pretend to be part of it?

I just think it's cyinical and as I've said, disrespectful to believers. Whether it's pretending to be part of a mainstream religious group or a more alternative one.

If your friends belonged to a cult, would you pretend to be initiated into it to be one of the lads? or so you could have the initiation party? or because it was traditional for your group?

[kaosmark2]

because you're bringing yourself into their group. If you don't believe in it, why do you feel so strongly that you need to pretend to be part of it?

I just think it's cyinical and as I've said, disrespectful to believers. Whether it's pretending to be part of a mainstream religious group or a more alternative one.

If your friends belonged to a cult, would you pretend to be initiated into it to be one of the lads? or so you could have the initiation party? or because it was traditional for your group?

[feral chile]

If you refused to be a part of the ceremony but said you didn't ban the child from getting christened then that's not being as double-standard. I think saying he won't let his kid be christened at all would be a particularly stubborn and stupid thing to do considering that he's already agreed to letting it go ahead as long as he didn't have to get involved with the religious aspects.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

This.

By going along with it, utterring the same words they do while thinking the exact opposite, you're diminishing the value of what they're saying and doing and their beliefs.

[feral chile]

I think people already bow to peer pressure in everyday non religious life. You could even say that there are initiations eg, drink, drugs, sex,

[kaosmark2]

It depends how active your atheism is. There's no way i would have had my children connected to a religion, and no way I would have got married in a church, luckily my husband is atheist (I don't think we discussed this before having kids) and I would have let them make up their own mind, how much I've brainwashed them into being atheist I couldn't say.

I'd like to think I've taught them to apply logic and assess the evidence.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

But these involve genuine participation, not pretending.

[feral chile]

But if you don't believe them to be right then where's the harm. The religious people aren't going to care that you're diminishing there activities and beliefs. Nobody gets hurt.

[feral chile]

A lot of people (I suspect) do pretend to be someone they are not at times just so as to keep in with the crowd. I'm not really getting how it's any different from religious folk. And surely a non believer would put down the religious as pretending anyway because they'll (the none believer) know better.

Edited April 10, 2012 by feral chile

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

If they don't caare, then why do they insist on bible meetings etc. beforehand? Presumably to test your sincerity (or try to convert you along the way).

I'm sure the Church expect you to take the christening seriously.

I find myself in a strange position here - as a strong atheist, I feel I'm somehow wanting to respect Christian belief more than those without strong opinions. The irony!

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

The believers are not pretending though, if they're sincere. And that's the point. I'd feel I'd be showing contempt for them if I invaded their church and sat there all superior, mocking their ceremony and everything they stood for. And yet wanting to be part of it????

Inconsistent and illogical as well.

But this is because I feel such a strong antipathy towards religion - I'd be an enemy in their midst. I'd feel treacherous.

[feral chile]

The believers may well be sincere but I can't see how the attendance of a non believer is going to make any difference to them - as long as you continue with your little white lie. Not sure how you can feel inside that you'd be mocking their ceremony if you are of the opinion that they are actually all delusional in the first place.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

You think pretending to believe someone's delusion, even joining in with it, isn't mocking them? Would you do it to a group of mentally ill patients? Don't you find it at all patronising?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

i haven't read it all, but I agree with the bits you and neil have said.

I must admit, i attend weddings and funerals without making a big deal about it, but i feel such a hypocrite, knowing I think it's all crap. And disrespectful to those who are there and actually buy into it all.

it's not just Christianity, either - I feel just as uncomfortable at non-Christian religious celebrations, and have turned down invitations to attend on the basis that it'snot right to have a person in the midst of something others find meaningful, tha\t I'm totally dismissive of.

And i wouldn't want my child to think I was a hypocrite. (to that extent, anyway - I know we all are to some extent, but a non-believer having their child christened seems particularly cynical and disrespectful). how is that child going to view you involving them in your hypocricy?

[nightcrawler13]

i hope none of you give or receive presents at Christmas, because that would be lying to yourself, others and Jesus

it might have lost it's religious importance, and become more of a tradition amongst English people, but... oh wait, I'm pretty sure you all do

Edited April 11, 2012 by nightcrawler13

[nightcrawler13]

apparently, it was a tradition before jesus

[eFestivals]

Clearly they're not that keen to sign up babies if they are making it difficult for an atheist to christen his child. If they just wanted numbers, they would say, sure, is a week on Saturday ok with you? But they're not. He wants to make sure that you know what you're getting into and that a Christening is not just a traditional ceremony, but a commitment to bring your child up as a Christian.

I can understand the vicar's point of view in that it's his job to make sure that people are serious about bringing up a child as religious, rather than just going through the motions.

I see it completely differently - that the Church gets people to make that commitment so that feel obliged to honour it.

It's the child that is "being welcomed into God's Church" - so why does that require that it's parents have to be a part of that Church?

[eFestivals]

You don't really get it....

The parents are making commitments to raise the child as a christian... That is why the parents are important...

To me personally though just one of the parents declaring that should be enough. I think this vicar is being silly.

The parents can raise the child as a Christian without being a Christian themselves.

But the church wants to hook them all, and have them all make a binding obligation - for a baby FFS, that's only just found it's mum's nipple, it doesn't have a fucking clue where god is, or if there's a god at all.

If they only wanted genuine believers, they'd wait till the child was old enough to know it's own mind. The fact that they don't gets to show that it's not about genuine belief but about snaring those who are unable to put up any resistance, to make things a fait accompli.

[eFestivals]

There really is no hope for you is there...

PMSL

If it's a pre-requisite that any Christian has to have Christian parents, care to tell me how Christianity got to be so widespread?

So I say again: The parents can raise the child as a Christian without being a Christian themselves.

But I do agree that it's a stupid idea. Why would anyone want to encourage their child to be deluded?

And that's a question for the OP to consider.