Euro 2012

[LondonTom]

Urgh, that is really annoying me. People trying to suggest England weren't that bad because they did better than the Germans. Casual fan idiocy really riles me around tournament time.

[Ed209]

Spain saved their best till last

Class act

[lharris92]

feel sorry for italy cause nothing went their way, however they got slaughtered...

[kaosmark2]

After several games of Spain looking somewhat lacklustre, they were stunning tonight. I'd been hoping before for Italy to win just because of how good they've been throughout the tournament, but that was just stunning from Spain. Loved it.

[pink_triangle]

I think while people say Spain have been lacklustre they have always had one eye on the next game and keeping players fresh. Italy looked exhausted from the start, I think the Spanish style of play isnt always to the taste of British football fans but they really turned it on today. I think Cesc gets some unfair criticism but in his international career he already has 2 winning assists in finals and 2 winning penalites in big knockout games. People stupidly criticise the 6 man midfield as arrogant but one Portugal player reflected it perfectly to me when he said as a defender its a nightmare because you dont know who to mark.

What also amazes me about this Spanish side is the squad morale, people may mock the likes of Reina and call them water carriers but they play a vital part in keeping the morale good. The bit part players may not be able to win these tournaments but as the likes of France and Holland have shown in the past they can lose them by causing trouble. Considering how succesful some of the reserves have been and the barca v madrid rivalry, they seem an amazingly tight squad. when in theory egos could get in the way.

[strummer77]

Boring eh? What a wonderful collection of footballers.

[pink_triangle]

I still found the punditry/commentry on the BBC annoying today, the exception was Vialii who really understands the game well and the BBC really need some new blood on to that program or at least some decent red button options. Some observations.

1. I completely disagree with the regularly repeated comment that the Spanish felt the need to prove the criticism wrong. I can absolutely guarantee that the likes of Xavi and Iniesta couldnt care less what the British media think about their game.

2. Shearers comments at half time that by winning 3 in a row Spain have to be the best of all time. I personally hate this whole "best of all time" argument because how can people judge teams/players that they have never seen. Its like when people my age say Bobby Moore is the best centre back of all time because they have seen highligts of the 66 final and been told how good he was. I also find the argument a bit simplistic, it kind of assumes that the level of opposition is constant throughout history but I would say the last 6 years have not been a golden age for football talent and what talent is there has been concentrated in a couple of club and national sides. I look at the late 90s/early 00 when France won 2 in a row and I think there was more strength in depth in world football.

3. Hansens agenda against Balotellis is very annoying, he couldnt wait to get a dig in at the end. Maybe jealous of what he has achieved at his age, possibly a bitter jock who hates being proven wrong but I wish he would shut up.

4. Again repeating that Liverpool were stupid to let Alonso go, its hardly like they thought he was crap and gave him a free transfer.

Also why ranting why do they use assists to seperate players in the golden boot, they are completely different attributes. The golden boot is about who scores the most goals, if there is no outright winner it should be shared.

Edited July 1, 2012 by pink_triangle

[strummer77]

100% agree with what you said. Punditry and commentary is at an all time low I think. The debate analysis on these boards is often genuinely a level above that, and we're not being paid and writing comments during brief breaks. Keown, Chiles, Bright etc are awful.

[pink_triangle]

Untill Mata came on today, i had forgotten he was even in the squad. Its scary to not really need to use a player at that level. Apart from maybe Germany nearly every other worldwide team would probably be looking to make him their main midfielder.

[kaosmark2]

Completely agreed with pt's rant and strummer.

I think one of the problems with punditry is that it's very insular. Those of us on this board discuss with a greater range of people, hear the (often idiotic) opinions of professional pundits, read blogs, chat to friends elsewhere about football, probably most of us have a local pub where we discuss things. In contrast, Hansen and the like will watch every game as a pundit, paid for by the BBC, and be watching it with the same people, discussing it with the same people. Views get recycled and isolated, with little new perspective. Every time a fresh face like Vialli comes in it's incredibly refreshing, but without sustained rotation and variation there's no chance of a new perspective. I find the very brief analysis on MotD2 a lot more insightful because there's a lot less of an established lineup there. Even worse, they watch the same teams and the same games over and over. I've probably watched more Bundesliga (5) + Serie A (3) games this season than the BBC pundits.

Still a damn sight better than ITV though. Admittedly my turds have more to offer than Andy Townsend.

One thing I noticed the pundits say today was that the officiating had been good throughout the tournament. I'm sure they've been told to say that, but I think it's been pretty awful throughout. The final was managed well, but every other game I've watched has had at least 2 awful decisions, some of which have been gamechanging (Ukraine non-goal). After the disgrace in the Prem last season, I think something really should be done, certainly if it carries on this season. While I'm in favour of introducing technology to help refereeing, I don't think it's the answer to poor refereeing, just an option that should be there as well.

[Ed209]

I still found the punditry/commentry on the BBC annoying today, the exception was Vialii who really understands the game well and the BBC really need some new blood on to that program or at least some decent red button options. Some observations.

1. I completely disagree with the regularly repeated comment that the Spanish felt the need to prove the criticism wrong. I can absolutely guarantee that the likes of Xavi and Iniesta couldnt care less what the British media think about their game.

2. Shearers comments at half time that by winning 3 in a row Spain have to be the best of all time. I personally hate this whole "best of all time" argument because how can people judge teams/players that they have never seen. Its like when people my age say Bobby Moore is the best centre back of all time because they have seen highligts of the 66 final and been told how good he was. I also find the argument a bit simplistic, it kind of assumes that the level of opposition is constant throughout history but I would say the last 6 years have not been a golden age for football talent and what talent is there has been concentrated in a couple of club and national sides. I look at the late 90s/early 00 when France won 2 in a row and I think there was more strength in depth in world football.

3. Hansens agenda against Balotellis is very annoying, he couldnt wait to get a dig in at the end. Maybe jealous of what he has achieved at his age, possibly a bitter jock who hates being proven wrong but I wish he would shut up.

4. Again repeating that Liverpool were stupid to let Alonso go, its hardly like they thought he was crap and gave him a free transfer.

Also why ranting why do they use assists to seperate players in the golden boot, they are completely different attributes. The golden boot is about who scores the most goals, if there is no outright winner it should be shared.

[kaosmark2]

While you do seem to whinge about pretty much everything ... I do agree with you that the punditry is terrible. Keep Gary, but the rest of the MoTD team should be looking over their shoulders. I think they have a bit of untouchables arrogance about them. Lawro is an absolute embarrassment in the commentary box too. I switched back to the American ESPN feed because it was better

[LondonTom]

One thing I noticed the pundits say today was that the officiating had been good throughout the tournament. I'm sure they've been told to say that, but I think it's been pretty awful throughout. The final was managed well, but every other game I've watched has had at least 2 awful decisions, some of which have been gamechanging (Ukraine non-goal). After the disgrace in the Prem last season, I think something really should be done, certainly if it carries on this season. While I'm in favour of introducing technology to help refereeing, I don't think it's the answer to poor refereeing, just an option that should be there as well.

Edited July 1, 2012 by LondonTom

[kaosmark2]

I am sure qualifying will destroy that before long

[A-Rob]

Spain were on Different Level yesterday, Italy were embarssed big time.

Honestly I was glad, because I didn't want to see an another arrogant celebration from Balloteli.

[pink_triangle]

Spain were on Different Level yesterday, Italy were embarssed big time.

[rexclark]

What a game of football. Spain were a joy to watch and deserved winners. They've go so much class that they actually made it look easy.

[jump]

I dont think Italy were embarassed, i think they left the match with their heads held high but sometimes you have to admit that the opposition are far better. I was amazed before the match looking at predictions it seemed a 50/50 match. To me Spain were big favourties because they have been there and done it.

I also think Del Bosque deserves a lot of credit, think he used the squad fantastic in terms of substitutions and rotation. The squad looked very fresh, its a brave man who will take a player like Xavi off early in a big match.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Completely agreed with pt's rant and strummer.

I think one of the problems with punditry is that it's very insular. Those of us on this board discuss with a greater range of people, hear the (often idiotic) opinions of professional pundits, read blogs, chat to friends elsewhere about football, probably most of us have a local pub where we discuss things. In contrast, Hansen and the like will watch every game as a pundit, paid for by the BBC, and be watching it with the same people, discussing it with the same people. Views get recycled and isolated, with little new perspective. Every time a fresh face like Vialli comes in it's incredibly refreshing, but without sustained rotation and variation there's no chance of a new perspective. I find the very brief analysis on MotD2 a lot more insightful because there's a lot less of an established lineup there. Even worse, they watch the same teams and the same games over and over. I've probably watched more Bundesliga (5) + Serie A (3) games this season than the BBC pundits.

Still a damn sight better than ITV though. Admittedly my turds have more to offer than Andy Townsend.

One thing I noticed the pundits say today was that the officiating had been good throughout the tournament. I'm sure they've been told to say that, but I think it's been pretty awful throughout. The final was managed well, but every other game I've watched has had at least 2 awful decisions, some of which have been gamechanging (Ukraine non-goal). After the disgrace in the Prem last season, I think something really should be done, certainly if it carries on this season. While I'm in favour of introducing technology to help refereeing, I don't think it's the answer to poor refereeing, just an option that should be there as well.

Edited July 2, 2012 by thesecretingredientiscrime

[kaosmark2]

Completely agree with all of this.

Regarding the refereeing especially, it was awful. Not just for some of the missed decisions, but for the amount of times referees got involved in play (actually touching the ball). If that was in England, most of them would be refereeing The Dog And Duck in the next game. As you said, some of the most shocking bits (as I mentioned, them getting too close to play) can't be solved by technology and needs to be helped by UEFA looking at their referees department.

[eFestivals]

it made me laugh last night on the beeb as they presented the cup - saying that the reffing had been excellent all tournament.

Of course, if that Ukraine non-goal against England had been an English non-goal, the comment would have been the same, eh?

[jump]

Steven Gerrard has been named in the UEFA squad of the tournament and Iniesta the best player.

Goalkeepers: Buffon (Ita), Casillas (Spa), Neuer (Ger).

Defenders: Pique (Spa), Coentrao (Por), Lahm (Ger), Pepe (Por), Ramos (Spa), Alba (Spa).

Midfielders: De Rossi (Ita), Gerrard (Eng), Xavi (Spa), Iniesta (Spa), Khedira (Ger), Busquets (Spa), Ozil (Ger), Pirlo (Ita), Xabi Alonso (Spa).

Forwards: Balotelli (Ita), Fabregas (Spa), Ronaldo (Por), Ibrahimovic (Swe), Silva (Spa).

[strummer77]

Regarding the refereeing especially, it was awful. Not just for some of the missed decisions, but for the amount of times referees got involved in play (actually touching the ball). If that was in England, most of them would be refereeing The Dog And Duck in the next game. As you said, some of the most shocking bits (as I mentioned, them getting too close to play) can't be solved by technology and needs to be helped by UEFA looking at their referees department.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Nah they would be reffing the Premier League. Our refs last season were generally awful as well so I'm not sure where this myth about us having good refs come from.

I think refereeing as a whole as been poor for a while and there's definitely a lack of common sense being applied. Maybe there's too many directives and agendas coming from above that stops the best refs refereeing naturally.

Edited July 2, 2012 by thesecretingredientiscrime

[pink_triangle]

Steven Gerrard has been named in the UEFA squad of the tournament and Iniesta the best player.

Goalkeepers: Buffon (Ita), Casillas (Spa), Neuer (Ger).

Defenders: Pique (Spa), Coentrao (Por), Lahm (Ger), Pepe (Por), Ramos (Spa), Alba (Spa).

Midfielders: De Rossi (Ita), Gerrard (Eng), Xavi (Spa), Iniesta (Spa), Khedira (Ger), Busquets (Spa), Ozil (Ger), Pirlo (Ita), Xabi Alonso (Spa).

Forwards: Balotelli (Ita), Fabregas (Spa), Ronaldo (Por), Ibrahimovic (Swe), Silva (Spa).