Football 2012-2013

[eFestivals]

You've been predicting financial doom for Utd for longer than Ashley Young's been diving, worst case scenario would be a LFC type situation, there's no signs that's close though

I'm not predicting any outcome for Utd here, I'm predicting that their doings will have an effect in other places. I guess that has the possibility of coming back onto them eventually by somehow being forced to relocate the company in the UK, but that's waaaay further down the line than I'd care to predict - I predict a bigger reaction against the offshore tax scams from Utd going offshore, that's all. I don't predict where that reaction might lead.

But yeah, I've been predicting eventual huge financial problems for the Glazers for about 10 years less than I'd been predicting a global economic meltdown. So there's still time.

And some of what i've said has proven true. The announcement of the Glazer's latest floatation plans proves what I said about the previous ones being likely to not be viable. Unfortunately for the Glazers this latest plan is only marginally better - probably not enough to swing it, but we'll see. I've been wrong along the line too, such as thinking that the bond wouldn't sell.

And it's funny that I'm mentioned that bond - a bond of £500M. There's publicly known other debts too (from what they've borrowed for the initial purchase and along the way too) which the bond money didn't pay off in entirety .... and they're stating debts of £423M for this share issue.

I guess they're hoping that some people have more money than sense, or that the reports of declining standards in maths are true.

Edited July 4, 2012 by eFestivals

[Benj]

In 2009 though you suggested that Utd were in a less stable position than LFC!

/topic/124749-football-english-leagues/page__st__6420#entry3007873">http://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/topic/124749-football-english-leagues/page__st__6420#entry3007873

A year later LFC were lucky not to go into Administration, Utd have won the title since and nearly did again this year.

Im not saying you're wrong and that it wont happen, just that you've got excited previously only to be let down, so I wouldn't get your hopes up again.

I don't hate Utd on any level really but an LFCesque financial collapse would be ace to watch!

[thetime]

In 2009 though you suggested that Utd were in a less stable position than LFC!

/topic/124749-football-english-leagues/page__st__6420#entry3007873">http://www.efestivals.co.uk/forums/topic/124749-football-english-leagues/page__st__6420#entry3007873

A year later LFC were lucky not to go into Administration, Utd have won the title since and nearly did again this year.

Im not saying you're wrong and that it wont happen, just that you've got excited previously only to be let down, so I wouldn't get your hopes up again.

I don't hate Utd on any level really but an LFCesque financial collapse would be ace to watch!

[strummer77]

A year later LFC were lucky not to go into Administration, Utd have won the title since and nearly did again this year.

[Benj]

Liverpools football collapse has been fun nevermind financial, and its only going to get more fun.

[thetime]

Yeah but they're living off an already established base of a good squad under a manager pushing the limits of his substantial ability. Very few others could have got that squad to compete as much as they did last season. If they don't get the funds to rebuild over the next few years, which whilst they pay off increasing levels of debt they eventually won't, they will stop being able to compete at the very top level. You have to remember in the middle of Hicks' reign of terror we had our best finish for almost 20 years, it didn't mean our long term future was anything more than Aston Villa.

Now I think United will take time to get to that stage, and they might well get saved before then. But they are playing with fire. As someone who cares for the game I hope no club goes through such a downfall as it isn't anything to do with sport but the greed of others outside the game. I want teams to beat United on the pitch, not in the banks. However part of me hopes that those who laughed at us and continue to do so, forgetting our downfall came from a similar situation, have a very rude awakening.

I doubt they will, but whilst the arrogance of the majority of their fan base continues... it is possible.

[eFestivals]

In 2009 though you suggested that Utd were in a less stable position than LFC!

yup. Cos I was under the mistaken impression that the bullshitters H&G were lesser bullshitters than the Glazers. It turned out they were cut from the exact same cloth, but that one of them is better at giving numpties the runaround.

Im not saying you're wrong and that it wont happen, just that you've got excited previously only to be let down, so I wouldn't get your hopes up again.

what 'hopes' of financial collapse are you under the misapprehension I'm under?

And even going with you being under that false belief, why do you think that anything i've said today is in any way similar? Nowhere have I mentioned any Utd collapse or even hinted at it, I've just said that this money-raising proposal seems almost as flawed as the previous one (which obviously was flawed, else they'd have done it), but also that the plan to take the Utd companies into a tax haven is likely to focus some minds that previously have been distracted by fluffy cats or whatever else from the fact they're being robbed hand over fist.

[Benj]

Yeah but they're living off an already established base of a good squad under a manager pushing the limits of his substantial ability. Very few others could have got that squad to compete as much as they d......arrogance of the majority of their fan base continues... it is possible.

[Benj]

yup. Cos I was under the mistaken impression that the bullshitters H&G were lesser bullshitters than the Glazers. It turned out they were cut from the exact same cloth, but that one of them is better at giving numpties the runaround.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Benj

[eFestivals]

When fergie goes uniteds success will change and perhaps go back to the level of post Busby and pre fergie where in around 20 years we won just 3 fa cups. People will no doubt blame the finances but will just be natural progression.

I'd say it's far easier to stay at the top than climb back to the top.

And I'd say it's far easier to stay at the top with more money available to you than it is with limited funds.

So while a post-fergie decline can be one of several reasonable and possible outcomes that we can make at this time for after his retirement, the chances of that are increased if Utd have less money available to them than they might otherwise have.

So I'd say that it's exceedingly likely that the state of the finances at Utd will pay a major part of what happens at Utd post-fergie, unless Utd get exceedingly lucky with finding another Wenger-type character.

[strummer77]

You make it sound like Liverpool have had no money where you spent a shit load every summer, perhaps only city have spent more last 5 years.

So its not like Liverpool are in financial meltdown, just bad management appointments.

[eFestivals]

Thing is we can all speculate, in reality we have no real idea what the situation is at Utd, its not only Neil who's been banging on about it, loads have, including Utd fans, for a long long time now, yet there has not really been a hiccough.

The fact that they have to keep "robbing peter to pay paul" is not speculation. It's a fact.

What's been a surprise is the length of time they've managed to keep doing it, especially considering the more recent years.

But then again, they're just playing out in a public view a sort-of mini version of all that's wrong with the world of finance, and how astoundingly stupid that world is. It's not surprising the world is fucked.

Cos the whole thing is held up by pronouncements by the Glazers themselves of how much Utd is worth - along to lots of mindless nodding from Utd fans - while nothing of Utd's finances sustains those fantasy numbers in any sort of reality.

It's probably the case that Utd is the best-performing high-profile company in the world in the last 5 years if the Glazers word is taken for what it's supposedly worth now (the lie that sustains their borrowing). The briefest look at the top level numbers for Utd gets to show that those fantasy numbers are out-of-this-world laughable.

[eFestivals]

Anyway, RVP is gone

http://robinvanpersie.com/2012/07/04/update-for-the-fans/

[The Nal]

Anyway, RVP is gone

http://robinvanpersi...e-for-the-fans/

Edited July 4, 2012 by The Nal

[strummer77]

Not signing a new contract.

"We, in many aspects, disagree on the way Arsenal should move forward"

Will they flog him and cash in on 8m or something? Or let him play the year out and leave on a free?

[Benj]

The fact that they have to keep "robbing peter to pay paul" is not speculation. It's a fact.

What's been a surprise is the length of time they've managed to keep doing it, especially considering the more recent years.

But then again, they're just playing out in a public view a sort-of mini version of all that's wrong with the world of finance, and how astoundingly stupid that world is. It's not surprising the world is fucked.

Cos the whole thing is held up by pronouncements by the Glazers themselves of how much Utd is worth - along to lots of mindless nodding from Utd fans - while nothing of Utd's finances sustains those fantasy numbers in any sort of reality.

It's probably the case that Utd is the best-performing high-profile company in the world in the last 5 years if the Glazers word is taken for what it's supposedly worth now (the lie that sustains their borrowing). The briefest look at the top level numbers for Utd gets to show that those fantasy numbers are out-of-this-world laughable.

[pink_triangle]

At 8 million, he is worth more for a year than what he could be replaced with. I would look for 15 million

[Benj]

They should cash in. They should be able to get near £20m from somebody I'm sure *Man CIty cough*

[thetime]

balotelli aguero van persie could be a bit tasty!

[Benj]

balotelli aguero van persie could be a bit tasty!

[strummer77]

That's more what I was thinking, 8 million is not really worth their while, wages for any replacement would probably cost near that, before a fee

[thetime]

Always makes me laugh when footballers get to 28/29 and want to leave to win trophies, nothing to do with one last bumper signing on fee and wages.

[eFestivals]

From what I've read (just now*) the debts have been slashed in the last couple of years and profits have trippled, so they're obviously doing something right!

I read the first of those articles, and it's as tho the Glazers had written it themselves.

There's no way they've paid off £500M of debt in the last 2 years. I'm not even sure that they've turned over much more than that in the last 2 years.

[strummer77]

Always makes me laugh when footballers get to 28/29 and want to leave to win trophies, nothing to do with one last bumper signing on fee and wages.

[kaosmark2]

I suspect RVP won't ever play as well as he has the past 18 months for Arsenal again. He would have been hard-pressed to anyway, but there's no team that he would go to that would set their system up around his talents like Arsenal have been. I don't think he'll fall off as badly as Nasri, but I doubt he'll achieve to the same extent again.

I'm not so sure he'll go to City. I'd imagine Germany personally, maybe Italy.