Football 2012-2013

[The Nal]

^{I always get the impression that against the top 4 or 5 teams everton have an inferiority complex.}

Edited April 17, 2013 by The Nal

[TheGayTent]

Jelavic has had a poor season.

Mind you, you get this almost mystical 20 goal a season striker line trotted out a lot. Fact is, there are very few of them (particularly if limited to league goals). How many will there be at the end of the season? How many have there been in the last 5 seasons?

Fact is Everton couldn't afford to buy a proven one, and if they had one, they'd sell him PDQ. Sad but true.

[The Nal]

Jelavic has had a poor season.

Mind you, you get this almost mystical 20 goal a season striker line trotted out a lot. Fact is, there are very few of them (particularly if limited to league goals). How many will there be at the end of the season? How many have there been in the last 5 seasons?

Fact is Everton couldn't afford to buy a proven one, and if they had one, they'd sell him PDQ. Sad but true.

Edited April 17, 2013 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

In fairness to Everton, they have done very well against the top teams this season. Beaten Utd, drawn with Arsenal twice, beat Spurs and then drew with them, drew with City away and then beat them at home and narrowly lost to Chelski.

Not many who can claim that. The issue they have is scoring goals. They're very solid - they've only lost 5 which only the Manchester clubs can beat having lost 4 each. But they've drawn 14 games which is the most in the league. A lot of those draws were against weaker opposition. They should have won a lot of those games. Fellaini is their top scorer with 11. Jelavic and Anichebe have only scored 8 each which is very poor.

If they had a 20 goals a season striker in the squad they would be guaranteed Champo League already.

[pink_triangle]

Mind you, you get this almost mystical 20 goal a season striker line trotted out a lot. Fact is, there are very few of them (particularly if limited to league goals). How many will there be at the end of the season? How many have there been in the last 5 seasons?

[TheGayTent]

Agreed I dont think Owen ever got 20 goals in a season and nobody would doubt his ability at his peak. Also judging by total goals doesnt take into account that some goals (eg winning goals in tight matches compared with the 5th of a 5-0 win) are more important than others.

[The Nal]

Agreed they have done well, but I always get the impression they dont quite feel they belong. Particularly away from home against the big boys they seem to have the attitude that anything is a bonus. I look at a side like liverpool (who I have found very disappointing this seaosn) and home or away they look like they have more belief against the big boys often if on occasions its unfounded. To me the draw is one of the most overated results in football, its only 1 point more than a loss. To me yesterdays game was one of those games where you have to gamble. A win would have put everton in the champions league hunt, whether they drew or lost wouldnt make a significant difference. I just got the impression they went into the game happy with a point which in many circumstances would be fine but I dont think it was right for yesterdays game.

Edited April 17, 2013 by The Nal

[pink_triangle]

I know what you mean. But they don't have the firepower to compete in every game away from home.

In relation to Liverpool, Everton are a better team, Liverpool deserve to be where they are. If you take a starting 11 from both teams, there would be more Everton players in there.

Howard, Coleman, Baines, Jagielka, Osman, PIenaar and Fellaini for a start. Maybe 1 or 2 more?

[The Nal]

Interesting quote from Alison Rudd who is a good journalist about how when Rodgers discusses Gerrard he sounds more like a fan than a manager. I think she is absolutely right here, his praise seems to take gushing to a level of almost adulation.

Edited April 17, 2013 by The Nal

[Essex_George]

Funny enough I don't agree with the points on Everton and Liverpool players, I would take alot more Liverpool players but I am biased.

Do agree with the point about Rodgers and Gerrard, think he goes bit to over the top with his praise and at 33 he really shouldn't be playing every game. At some point someone is going to have to fill his boots but at the moment can't see anyone in the current squad being able to do that.

[pink_triangle]

. And Gerrard and Suarez are obviously great.

[The Nal]

Mental!!

[strummer77]

Disagree that most Liverpool players are better if on form though. Both Everton fullbacks are far better than anything Liverpool have. I've never rated Glen "Great going forward" Johnson with his 4 assists and 1 goal from 49 shots this season. Thats about his average seasons output. Always has been. And hes a shocking defender. So what does he do?!

Edited April 17, 2013 by strummer77

[TheGayTent]

The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

Reina is shit though

[strummer77]

The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

Reina is shit though

Edited April 17, 2013 by strummer77

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Baines is obviously better than Enrique but Glen Johnson is also miles better than Coleman, swapping them would make me cry! He's not shocking at all defensively either, bit of a myth. He copes with Bale and Walcott etc as well as anyone in the league. Been a bit off recently admittedly and looks shattered, but first half the season he was fantastic. One of the few players who really could remain in the first XI if we wanted to challenge.

[strummer77]

I've never seen Johnson do well defensively. I've watched a few whole Liverpool games this season, and watched most of the England games in full, and he's looked pretty useless defensively.

Edited April 17, 2013 by strummer77

[thetime]

Not saying he's Maldini but he's better defensively than say Kyle Walker. He slightly struggled in a few recently- he look knackered- but I can't recall him looking useless for a while.

i don't even think Coleman is that good defensively, and that's who we were comparing to. I've seen him live a couple of times and especially against us in the FA Cup semi when he was on he almost got himself sent off!

[kaosmark2]

Very few decent right-backs in terms of defending at all nowadays. I can't think of any great ones in the Prem, the El Clasico teams have very attacking RBs, Piszceck (sp?) for Dortmund is really attacking. Lahm's attack-minded but I'd class him as a top defender similar to Cashley in his heyday.

How many RBs in the Prem are better defending than Johnson? Zabaleta definitely, but beyond that I can't think of any.

Sagna's been poor since he started getting injured; Walker's ridiculously overrated; Azpilicueta is attacking; Ivanovic probably is but he's always got a mistake in him and thinks of himself as a CB; Rafael I'd rate similar to Johnson (better attacking though); Coleman and Hibbert both poor; Debuchy looks like he might be but too early to truly judge.

I wouldn't agree that defending is an after-thought though. While I think the focus has shifted more to joining the attack, having a positional sense is still vital. Defensive wingers with a strong tendency to track back like Gutierrez and Valencia still get caught out when playing full-back a lot more.

[pink_triangle]

Funny enough I don't agree with the points on Everton and Liverpool players, I would take alot more Liverpool players but I am biased.

Do agree with the point about Rodgers and Gerrard, think he goes bit to over the top with his praise and at 33 he really shouldn't be playing every game. At some point someone is going to have to fill his boots but at the moment can't see anyone in the current squad being able to do that.

[The Nal]

Cracking game at Upton Park.

[kaosmark2]

When I heard Rodgers discussing Gerrard it always felt a bit wierd but I never could explain why. I think the comment about treating him like a fan instead of a player explained it perfectly. The last 2 reports I have read about Rodgers has been one about how his main priority is to extend Gerrards contract and another about how he hopes to persuade Carragher to delay his retirment.

I suppose this may be playing up to fans but if these are considered the main priorities I would be concerned. Gerrard is a 33 year old with 18 months left on his contract. The purpose of a contract is to give the club security but Gerrard is going nowhere so the security isnt really needed. Theres no reason not to wait untill preseason and look to renegotiate wages to reflect he doesnt have the impact he did when he was 28. If anything the priority should be to find someone who could offer him some real competition with a view to replacing him. As for Carragher he has been a little better the last few months but life will have to go on without him at sometime. I personally felt last season was the right time to get rid, but liverpool finally have to ask their scouts to do their job and find a decent centre back to replace him.

Agree on top form liverpool are the better 11 but neither Rogers or Kenny have been able to get enough of these players to top form. I honestly feel if either had got as much as Moyes out of these players liverpool could have been top 4.

Im somewhere in the middle regarding Rodgers. He is good (but not great) going forward. As for his defensive play in terms of pure defending eg tackling, blocking etc he is fine. However I still feel his positional play can be poor and he is still liable to leave spaces which make it difficult for other defenders.

Zabaletta has been the standout right back this season and then you have a load who are pretty similar. Another name I would add to the list is Lowton. I dont think anyone can underestimate what a tough place Villa has been this season for a youngish player with no premiership experience to develop. He has made mistakes but in general he has stood out for me and I think if he can play at a more stable (either an improved villa or elsewhere) club he will come on leaps and bounds.

[lharris92]

another decent point against a top club tonight, maybe a slight suspicion of offside for the rvp goal but the fair result i'd say. its the points like this that have helped us to the position we're currently in. good times

[TheGayTent]

Cracking game at Upton Park.

[thetime]

Robbed as usual!