T in the Park 2013

[Chiefski]

are you sure about that ...

same with paolo nutini. he was the 3rd i thought, but really why should he accept sub when he has done just as much as mumford and sons ...

imagine it was last year. would noel have ever accepted a sub spot while mumford headlined ?

it'll be interesting to see the february announcment to say the least

[harryomatic]

your problem there is both of them subs you mentioned are not as big as Mumford or Rihanna, not at all. Mumford's one album outsold all of what Biffy has done totally.

[Red Day]

Neil,

You and Devilman are a pair of stubborn hoors and both are correct, it's just you see it one way and he sees it another.

I've been at T since the start, and never had any great intentions of stopping, mainly because they always hade a decent enough variety of music to keep me happy. In 2011, I had a brilliant weekend and it was probably my fave.

That year, I think there was only two times that I had nothing to see, whereas last year I felt almost all the weekend was a shove in.

I agree that T has always catered for what's popular at the time and I suppose music has changed and the charts are filled with disposable reality junk as opposed to what you would define as indie landfill.

The problem I see with T, and you mention it in one of your replies, is that when a 40 something like me decides that the line up is no longer worthy of £200+ quid, then the theory is, a young buck takes my place and the money keeps rolling in.

What if the type of person who now downloads music and doesn't fancy spending a weekend in mud, doesn't buy the ticket.

Last year didn't sell out and I think (my opinion) that had a lot to do with the standard of act on the line up. I thought it was just a bad year, but if the bar has been set this year with Rihanna and Mumford, then it's with a regret that I'm not willing to continue going.

That probably means nothing to Geoff, but when there's normally a group of around 15 of us go and all feel it's no longer worth it, then maybe Geoff needs to think about his strategy.

The comparison with RW is fair as well. They have Green Day, Blur and Depeche Mode and T is only a week later. If tjose type of bands are no longer seen as being relevant, then I fear for the furure of T.

I appreciate T is about making money and they don't consider punters as anything more than a cash cow, but if a company treats it's loyal customers with disdain, they normally fail.

A more balanced line up appealing to a wide demographic is surely a better marketing strategy, then aiming for 17-22 year old alone.

Hope that makes some sense.

Oh and Devilman, I'll maybe get a beer at Bella with you.

[Paulk2904]

are you sure about that ...

same with paolo nutini. he was the 3rd i thought, but really why should he accept sub when he has done just as much as mumford and sons ...

imagine it was last year. would noel have ever accepted a sub spot while mumford headlined ?

it'll be interesting to see the february announcment to say the least

[guitarbhoy1888]

It's a matter of pride. I can't imagine Kelly Jones, frontman of Stereophonics, would be keen to sub Mumford & Sons; a band relatively fresh faced to the top end of festivals, and only two albums under their belt. Stereophonics would look at that, then at their 10+ years making music, 5 consecutive number one albums and countless sold out arena tours and tell Geoff to jog on. Can't say I'd blame them. Yes Mumford are bigger at the moment, but I can't see older big bands being too keen on subbing the new boys.

[mrtourette]

They'll find someone willing to sub them, either an act that don't have an ego problem or one that doesn't give a shit or even want to know who they play before/after. Someone like The Script would probably jump at the chance to sub.

[guitarbhoy1888]

They'll find someone willing to sub them, either an act that don't have an ego problem or one that doesn't give a shit or even want to know who they play before/after. Someone like The Script would probably jump at the chance to sub.

[Shootenanny!]

Hopefully Mumford & Sons will bring some of their pals with them.

They've toured with Willy Mason and Dawes amongst others this year - both brilliant acts who I'd love to see on the T line up. Dawes played this year though so that's unlikely.

[gazza_20]

Bjork

Radiohead

Editors

[thetime]

yup, and you know that only one of them at the max has the slightest chance of doing it.

[harryomatic]

They'll find someone willing to sub them, either an act that don't have an ego problem or one that doesn't give a shit or even want to know who they play before/after. Someone like The Script would probably jump at the chance to sub.

[harryomatic]

Perhaps I'm being optomistic, but do Green day not fit the bill for an act that wasn't finalised yet, that the organisers still needed to dot the i's and cross the t's with? I wouldn't finalise any plans or announce anything about Green Day headlining until I knew Billie Joe was going to be out or rehab

[eFestivals]

What if the type of person who now downloads music and doesn't fancy spending a weekend in mud, doesn't buy the ticket.

that's always going to be a risk.

But against that is the certainty of you dying sooner or later, so they know for certain they'll lose the older ones at some point down the line. So their *ONLY* option if taking the long term view is to try and attract youngsters - and they won't succeed with 'dad rock', because that's what it is to the kids no matter how brilliant you might think it to be.

So the risk of failing is the better way to go than the certainty of failing. - that is the business case which cannot be ignored. It is, after all, a business.

Last year didn't sell out and I think (my opinion) that had a lot to do with the standard of act on the line up. I thought it was just a bad year, but if the bar has been set this year with Rihanna and Mumford, then it's with a regret that I'm not willing to continue going.

the reality of line-ups is that some years will always be stronger than others, just because of the cycle of things - and last year was one of the less good line-ups I'd say.

But I'd also say that it started with the headliners, who were overall dreadful. They certainly weren't acts that were going to bring in the kids, were they?

I'd say, with the little announced so far that this year is far better. Like her or not there's no doubting that Rihanna is massively popular and will go down well with the kids, while Mumford are very contemporary without being too far away from what the 'regulars' might expect and absolutely feckin' huge at the moment.

I think for you to expect the headliners to not go the way of the likes of Rihanna (until guitars come back into fashion, anyway) over the next few years is you being unrealistic to the way that music fashion is going.

As for selling out each year, that's largely been due to a fashion for festivals in general rather than anything specifically good about T in the Park - it followed the same pattern up as the other fests, and it's following the same pattern downwards again as those other fests. While a line-up definitely sells the tickets, there's some things which no line-up can buck.

That probably means nothing to Geoff, but when there's normally a group of around 15 of us go and all feel it's no longer worth it, then maybe Geoff needs to think about his strategy.

if he's getting 15 others in in your place then his strategy is surely working

The comparison with RW is fair as well. They have Green Day, Blur and Depeche Mode and T is only a week later. If tjose type of bands are no longer seen as being relevant, then I fear for the furure of T.

music fashions are not in the same place in every country.

But how can you pull out three bands - all of which are 20+ years old - and say that if a festival isn't booking those oldies it has no future? The future is *ALWAYS* the youth, the new, and not the old.

I appreciate T is about making money and they don't consider punters as anything more than a cash cow, but if a company treats it's loyal customers with disdain, they normally fail.

who decides what makes a great event?

DF put some stuff on and you liked it. Now you say that DF can't do anything different to what they've always done 9in your - very probably wrong - view; do you know what DF's exact plans and ambitions are with the fest, who it's aimed at, how they make that aim hit home, etc?) because you won't like it, despite them having been good enough at what they do in the first place to put on an event that you liked.

As i keep saying to devilman, the only thing that's going on here is the passage of time, and how that effects your own place in things. You have been wanting the festival to grow old along with you, when nothing about what it's ever done has suggested that it would do. It's always been a festival based around the current music scene, and the current music scene is not now your scene.

A more balanced line up appealing to a wide demographic is surely a better marketing strategy, then aiming for 17-22 year old alone.

I'd guess they're aiming primarily at 18 to 28s.

But it's always been clear that they're not aiming the event at the over 40s, I don't think that can be disputed.

I would say that when I became properly aware of T in the Park in 2000 (when I started efests) it was not aimed at those aged even 35 (which was my age then). Nothing of it appealed much to me, it wasn't music aimed at someone of my age (tho there was some stuff I'd be happy enough to see).

The fact that it might attract a minority that are of those sorts of ages is merely a happy consequence for DF I'd say.

[thetime]

Perhaps I'm being optomistic, but do Green day not fit the bill for an act that wasn't finalised yet, that the organisers still needed to dot the i's and cross the t's with? I wouldn't finalise any plans or announce anything about Green Day headlining until I knew Billie Joe was going to be out or rehab

[eFestivals]

ooo.

[Millar95]

Hopefully Mumford & Sons will bring some of their pals with them.

They've toured with Willy Mason and Dawes amongst others this year - both brilliant acts who I'd love to see on the T line up. Dawes played this year though so that's unlikely.

[Millar95]

ooo.

[Muppetmark]

fleetwood mac anyone? they are touring european festivals next summer. It would be a huge booking but I would absolutely hate it.

[Shootenanny!]

To be fair you make a good point there, they have some very good friends within the industry, Mr Bruce Springsteen himself springs to mind! Maybe, just maybe, they could put on one hell of a show but this is yet to be seen

[blue6field]

There already doing festivals in july, so billy joe in rehab has nothing to do with it.

[harryomatic]

If its green day,from what I heard its nothing to do with billy Joe's rehab

[Paul ™]

More to be announced before friday

[eFestivals]

more to be announced before wednesday Thursday.

Edited December 4, 2012 by eFestivals
I don't know what day it is

[Paul ™]

Lol yeah this was meant to be announced this morning too.. any idea why it wasnt?

[eFestivals]

Lol yeah this was meant to be announced this morning too.. any idea why it wasnt?

I'm guessing that the contracts weren't finished.

Then again it might be a deliberate decision to double the media impact by making two announcements. People who missed the first will get the 2nd, sort of thing.

Edited December 4, 2012 by eFestivals