Cash in hand morally wrong

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I agree. Satan's so yesterday!

[feral chile]

I knew someone that was given some sheets as a gift and they threw then away as they were "evil", until it was pointed out they were satin and not satan sheets. I really wish I was making this shit up :-(

Edited July 26, 2012 by feral chile

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I knew someone that was given some sheets as a gift and they threw then away as they were "evil", until it was pointed out they were satin and not satan sheets. I really wish I was making this shit up :-(

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I went to Madrid to see my brother who was working there. He lived next to a strange religious type shop. Not sure why I went in but I did and found that they were selling anti-satan spray! Basically they were preying (unintended pun) on the vulnerable - which is evil in itself. Thinking about it now I should have bought a can and sprayed it all over the shop keeper!

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

What was in the bottle? Jesus piss?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I don't know what was in the spray can but I expect it was heavily water based than piss based (not that piss isn't heavily water based too). I think the best defence if coming up against the devil would be to point behind him and say 'is he with you?'. Then as he turns back around from looking behind him with a questioning look on his face, drop the nut on him. It's the only language the devil understands! Sprays are no good.

[Spindles]

It's not what people choose to do with their money that is morally wrong.

It is money itself that is morally wrong. The concept of it, the division, destruction, deception, subjugation and manipulation it requires to merely exist creates every single evil on this planet. It's Satan incarnate.

It really is THE problem we have.

[Spartacus Mars]

Did you buy a shed load of coke?

[Spartacus Mars]

I agree. Satan's so yesterday!

Edited September 8, 2012 by Spartacus Mars

[worm]

Satan is so misunderstood. All he did was question God. And then tempt woman to eat from the tree of knowledge. Sounds like a top lad to me.

I am a real life Rolling Stones track!

[Spindles]

[eFestivals]

Sheer fucking madness, but it didn't build the system and I've never voted for it.

you "voted for it" by your use of it.

Or don't you have any responsibility for your own actions?

[Spartacus Mars]

you "voted for it" by your use of it. Or don't you have any responsibility for your own actions?

Edited September 10, 2012 by Spartacus Mars

[eFestivals]

So you think the w*nkers are only that say, and not those who do just the same?

You're entitled to use the law as it stands to fuck over other people. It gets more than a little ridiculous when you choose to think that your own choices are nothing to do with you.

I don't have to imagine.

I can't alter companies pay structures (except my own). I can alter my approach to company pay structures. And I did, and do.

Edited September 10, 2012 by eFestivals

[Rufus Gwertigan]

when I was signing on, I'd get a few quid every now and again from gigs or part-time work. The system simply didn't allow for you to declare it. They even told me once, "don't tell us about these odd bits of cash you've earned, it's too much work"

[Spindles]

indeed....

maybe if benefits were anywhere close to be enough to live on, not so many people would be trying to bridge the gap with cash-in-hand work...?

just a thought

[Spartacus Mars]

You're entitled to use the law as it stands to fuck over other people. It gets more than a little ridiculous when you choose to think that your own choices are nothing to do with you.

[eFestivals]

So no, don't feel very guilty about having a few tens of grand in my account at the very end of that working period.. :-)

very few do. That's the very problem.

Are you hereby declaring you have created your company to absolutely maximise your tax, including taxes you're not expected to pay?

No, I've made zero efforts to avoid paying taxes that are due. You know, something different to what you choose to do.

(You haven't answered any other questions - answer this one - because I'm betting if I got involved with your finances I could find several ways to increase your tax liability, including making you liable for taxation you really should have no business paying, as you would have of me).

Who needs to find a tax to pay over more? McCartney showed how it was done, still paying 'taxes' at the rate before a tax cut.

It's not what you pay. It's what you take for yourself when not deserving of it.

And to prove you are deserving of it, please do tell me what makes you worth more than other working being on this planet at the rate of difference that exists (or existed).

Nothing? You just do it because you can? Yep, that's how it goes.

[feral chile]

I don't understand when people are part of society, are making money as a result of the economic system within the country, educated and trained by the country, and yet don't feel that they owe the country anything. Because they don't feel that the country has given them anything.

We're all products of society in ways we can't begin to fathom. The money we earn is valued as it is by the society that we live in, the state allows for private education, provides free education, etc. etc. For all we moan about student loans, at least it makes university attainable to most who want a university education.

I'm no expert on economics, but I know that at least the rail networks are still subsidized by the state. So even if you're not using state services in an obvious way, via benefits etc., it's likely that you use something that the state pays for or has produced. And the state/society will have gone a long way to shape you into the person you are.

Edited September 11, 2012 by feral chile

[Spartacus Mars]

No, I've made zero efforts to avoid paying taxes that are due. You know, something different to what you choose to do.

[eFestivals]

I made zero efforts to avoid paying taxes that were due. I paid my taxes at the legal rate.

way to go - make one thing look like something else, and then you're able to convince yourself you've done nothing wrong.

Bob Diamond and the other c**ts do the same thing you know. But hey, you don't care. You just care about paying as little as possible.

I'd agree, but you're expecting me to pay extra taxes I have no legal duty to pay - but you don't feel that way about yourself.

No. I'm wanting you to have enough intelligence to pay taxes at the same rate as normal people do, which they have a legal duty to pay.

He's still enriched himself to the point of having tens of millions, yes?

Yep. But just like you he doesn't know if he'll earn at that amount tomorrow as well as today - and still chooses (or at least did, not sure how it stands now) to pay extra taxes that he had no legal duty to pay (even if all of his earnings had gone thru the PAYE system).

That's him acting on his recognition of his duty to society.

It suggest it's relatively easy to be the big man and pay extra tax when you already know you have enough wedge to see your grand-children to their retirement and beyond.

and I'd suggest - in fact, actually state as a fact - that it's no less easy to not take the piss when earning minimum wage. Or even less in my case.

You first - why are you deserving of the legal rate of tax but not me?

Eh? That's nothing of what I asked.

So I'll say the words again, that seems to scare you soooo much that they have you running scared...

It's not what you pay. It's what you take for yourself when not deserving of it. And to prove you are deserving of it, please do tell me what makes you worth so much more than other working beings on this planet at the rate of difference that exists (or existed).

[kaosmark2]

Didn't cost the NHS a penny, didn't ever get caught by the police, didn't use a library, didn't ask for war against any country. Didn't really use any state services I can think of. Ignoring indirect taxation (VAT, fuel duty), but just income and council tax a rough calculation is I put some clear half a million into the tax system - and got and expected nothing from it.

So no, don't feel very guilty about having a few tens of grand in my account at the very end of that working period.. :-)

[Spartacus Mars]

way to go - make one thing look like something else, and then you're able to convince yourself you've done nothing wrong.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Spartacus Mars

[eFestivals]

You don't understand. I was asked what tax I wanted to pay because there is no one set legal rate. I certainly legally wasn't an employee (unless I employed myself) and certainly didn't get PAYE benefits such as sick pay.

And I did say the system was utterly mad.

mad system or not, it's the result of you considering the tax implications before anything else, and then setting up a structure to minimise your tax.

A far more honest way would be to decide how you were going to trade (ltd company, self-employed, etc) and then have that decide what tax you paid.

C'mon, it doesn't take a genius to see it.

You mean like I have for most of all of my working life, now, and prior to that contract, with the exception of that one contract? Fine. But, in return, I want the same benefits as "ordinary" people get - vacation pay, bank holiday pay, sick pay, pension contribution, redundancy entitlement, employment protection etc. ec., the stuff I simply didn't get.

the stuff that you had chosen to give up in exchange for a vastly greater pay which included money to cover all those things.

It sounds to me as tho you're wanting to be paid for it twice.

I mean, in absolute numbers, how much do you think YOU'VE contributed to the system?

me and the legal entities I've been responsible for, I'd guess something a little in excess of £1.5M.

[kaosmark2]

I mean, in absolute numbers, how much do you think YOU'VE contributed to the system?