home network backup solutions

[eFestivals]

one of the portable hard disks I've been using for backups has died, and as the amount I need to backup is too big for how I'm currently doing it, I'm wanting to get a better set-up.

I need to back-up both windows PCs and a linux server with what I go for.

I'm thinking that a couple of network drives of some sort would be the best bet, but I've no idea what's out there, what's good, and how well they might deal with two operating systems.

Does anyone have any recommendations, please?

[The Nal]

Depends. Whats your budget?

[eFestivals]

Depends. Whats your budget?

as small as possible, but as big as need to be.

What I missed from my needs above was this...

1. I want to create as little network traffic as possible (so I don't want data being copied from my linux server to my main PC to then be copied onto the network disk). That means that ideally the network disk will have its own controlling backup software (either as a part of the network disk package, or with 3rd party software working directly with that disk), so that data is copied from its source directly to the network disk.

2. that same backup software (or different software, tho I'd prefer an all-in-one) should also be able to copy what has been backed up to the network disk to an internet server for off-site backup.

[The Nal]

How much data?

And will you be doing these backups manually or do you need the software to backup x amount of data every x hours/days?

Theres lots of free backup software out there that would work but it depends on how you want to back up.

Also lots of companies now offering backup directly to their cloud so you could just back up the Windows and Linux data to the same storage location and not worry about it. A few options here.

Can Efests hosting company not offer this?

Edited August 15, 2012 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

How much data?

And will you be doing these backups manually or do you need the software to backup x amount of data every x hours/days?

Theres lots of free backup software out there that would work but it depends on how you want to back up.

Also lots of companies now offering backup directly to their cloud so you could just back up the Windows and Linux data to the same storage location and not worry about it. A few options here.

Can Efests hosting company not offer this?

The total data being backed up is somewhere near to a terabyte I think (tho of course not all of it needs backing up each day).

The backups need to be automatic. I've been using free software up to now (EZ-back-it-up; there's probably something better tho) but the problem with that is that the data ends up being moved around more than it otherwise would do, because it goes thru the PC that hosts that software. It also works by comparing files (rather than using the file's archive property), and due to the number of files it has difficulty dealing with that.

I'm sorted for space on internet servers (the efests ones) for clouding the data as well, but ideally I'd like the backup software I use to be able to FTP the changed files to one of those servers as well as backing up across my home network.

[Spindles]

For really valuable stuff I use Tortoise SVN subversioning (also useful for collaborative working, I work for minimum wage in a call centre, but write computer games for fun, or did when I was well). All you need is a 2nd PC somewhere (different building ideally, such as a datacentre box with remote access) to hold the server and each time you make changes, commit and only the changed data needs to be transferred, thus reducing bandwidth requirements for backing up changes.

The great advantage of subversioning is that it also allows you to step back in time with files, so if you screw something up on monday, then make it worse on tuesday, don't notice til wednesday you can just step back to sunday (if that makes sense).

I've been using SVN for about a decade and any other solution just seems less elegant to me.

*edit* I'll also mention it gives a great way to review the changes you have made to files, really great for code as you can side by side compare changes.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Spindles

[eFestivals]

Thanks for the suggestion Spindles. I'm aware of SVN and used it a little, and am also aware that it's being replaced by other software that does a similar thing (I'm aware of two, tho can't remember their names).

While I could happily use it to send my data to my net servers (rather than a 2nd PC), I also want an on-site copy of my backups, and what i've wanted to avoid is using a PC for it (I used to do things that way, but why run an extra PC when it's not necessary? I've already got 4 PCs running 24/7, and don't want another).

After much research, I found that Iomega do a system which has all of the components I was looking for (including a unix backup client)..... but my experience over nearly 20 years of Iomega stuff is that it's not the best, and far less reliable than it might be (the backup disk which has just failed is an Iomega, as it happens).

So instead, after finding it mentioned as much better in a review of that Iomega, and finding many other people raving about it, I've gone for a Synology DS212J 2 Bay NAS Enclosure, and will put two 2TB HDDs inside it which will then be mirrored - I'm sat here right now very nervous of the fact that I've got no on-site backup because the backup disk has failed, so having mirrored disks removes that worry next time my backup disk fails.

There's a review of the Synology DS212J 2 Bay NAS Enclosure, here:-

http://www.pcpro.co....synology-ds212j

The thing this system is most liked for is the 'DiskStation Manager' (DSM) software it comes with - the system runs unix. I'm not 100% sure at the mo (it's yet to be delivered) whether DSM will support uploading of its data to my 'net servers, but if it doesn't then I can cludge together another way of managing that which won't be too big a deal.

The system/DSM software has loads of great features too - it can act as an media server, print server, mail server and loads more too, and can be controlled by phone apps. I might not use much of this stuff but then again I might - it looks like I'll be able to change and expand how my network is utilised while also making it a bit easier to manage.

There's info about DSM here:-

http://www.synology....dex.php?lang=uk

And finally, the system shouldn't be too much of an electrical overhead, so its running costs should be pretty low.

It's cost me £330, which is about double the price of the Iomega system, but I've got double the data security for that, plus a much more flexible system, plus a system which I shouldn't ever have to dump if my needs don't change - if a disk fails I can simply swap it for a new one and the system keeps on working.

So all in all I'm pretty happy with the results of my research, and fingers crossed I'll be as happy when it's been delivered. I'll post back to say what I think sometime next week.

Edited August 16, 2012 by eFestivals

[Spindles]

No worries, whatever works for you

I used to be blasé about backing up, it's easy to do. The moment you lose something you can never get back, that you realise it's going to make your life worse to be without, you realise an investment of either money or effort is needed

Like you say, more and more system on a chip stuff is coming through which reduces the need for a whole PC when a simple linux/unix single purpose system can do the job better without the need for licensing OS, additional power overhead, etc.

I've got the same opinion of Iomega kit. I hate to admit to having brand loyalties, but I try and avoid companies who use second rate components which are destined to fail just outside the warranty period, particularly in key areas such as backup

[windy_miller]

Thanks for the suggestion Spindles. I'm aware of SVN and used it a little, and am also aware that it's being replaced by other software that does a similar thing (I'm aware of two, tho can't remember their names).

[eFestivals]

I bought a QNAP NAS recently which is pretty good. It runs squeezebox server (which is the main reason I bought it) and uses hardly any power when idling. It also runs linux, so you can install pretty much any server software you can think of on it.

I looked at that one, but went for the Synology because (besides having all the same features you've said) it appears to be the most rated NAS system around at the moment, thru a combination of the DSM software along with it's (supposedly) better transfer speed than other makes.

I just looked at what's required for building software packages to run on it (with everything properly integrated with the DSM interface, etc), and thankfully it doesn't look to be a chore.

[eFestivals]

I've got the Synology DS212j set-up and running, and have it doing the back-ups from my PCs without any problems.

I'm having more trouble trying to get it to act as a mirror via rsync for my linux server, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually. It's my linux knowledge that's the issue here, rather than anything else.

But i've discovered a huge and lovely side benefit of the system, which i'm chuffed about.

I've ordered a USB soundcard, which I can plug in the back, and then connect to my stereo, and then play my mp3s thru my hi-fi using a mobile app as the controller. As I've been wanting something to be able to do just that for ages, it's fantastic that I've got the perfect solution as the result of buying something for a completely different purpose.

[eFestivals]

I'm having more trouble trying to get it to act as a mirror via rsync for my linux server, but I'm sure I'll get there eventually. It's my linux knowledge that's the issue here, rather than anything else.

I've now got this sorted.

So, for my spend of £360, I've got a NAS with 2TB of mirrored (RAID) disk plus a USB soundcard, that I can easily automatically backup any of my windows PCs to, that I can easily back-up my linux server to, from which I can access all my files from anywhere in the world, where I can easily stream my MP3s over the net to my phone, and where I can use my phone to stream all of my MP3s to my hi-fi.

And no doubt I'll find other uses for it too.

I've gotta say I'm exceedingly pleased with how my need for a new backup solution has worked out.

[Pinhead]

I use an iSCSI NAS box at home, with native backup tools in Windows / VMware that do an independant compressed snapshot backup direct to that. For other flavours of Linux, a file copy cron job may be enough. Did use a copy of Backup Exec for a while for the virtual servers, but was overkill really. An old DAT72 drive makes tape copies for archiving.

Consider getting a spare 1TB Seagate for this now as its not unknown for one to fail, then the other fail before you have had a chance to source a compatable replacement, meaning you lose the whole volume.

For work I got them an HP EVA 4400 . . . A snip at 33K.

[The Nal]

Anyone got a Raspberry Pi? Have install mine. Fantastic. £26. Uses an android phone charger for power, using it to stream into another room. Can control with an app on my phone, search and play, pause all my files etc. The business.

[Essex_George]

Anyone got a Raspberry Pi? Have install mine. Fantastic. £26. Uses an android phone charger for power, using it to stream into another room. Can control with an app on my phone, search and play, pause all my files etc. The business.

[The Nal]

What software did you run Nal?

[eFestivals]

I just installed XBMC on it. I only use it to play files from my hard drives in the other room. Just stuck a network cable in the back of it.

George. Yes it will stream footie, no problem.

is there an XMBC version for linux now, then?

[The Nal]

is there an XMBC version for linux now, then?

[eFestivals]

Yep. Some info here.

ta ... that didn't exist when I originally looked at XBMC.

However, I'm struggling to see the point of media servers. Why are they necessary?

[The Nal]

However, I'm struggling to see the point of media servers. Why are they necessary?

[eFestivals]

Cheap, reliable and user friendly. You can install the XBMC remote on your phone.

even cheaper, more reliable, and user friendly is to just access the file directly.

What am I missing? I presume I'm missing something.

[The Nal]

even cheaper, more reliable, and user friendly is to just access the file directly.

What am I missing? I presume I'm missing something.

[eFestivals]

Access the file directly from what source though? I have a PC with 4TB of files in one room, and a Pi via a network cable in another room. So can access files in both rooms now. Simultaneously too if needs be.

so you have everything in place to be able to access the files without need of XBMC ... so why bother with XBMC?

[The Nal]

so you have everything in place to be able to access the files without need of XBMC ... so why bother with XBMC?

[eFestivals]

I don't use XBMC in the room with the PC, only the Pi as it means I can use the remote control on my phone and not have to use a mouse.

what device are the XBMC streams playing on?

How does the remote on your phone work?

(they might sound like dumb questions, but i'm trying to understand your set-up and what benefit there might be if I did similar)