Julian Assange

[Pinhead]

As a staunch ally of the US, Australia would be just as likely, perhaps even more so, to extradite him.

which of course Wikileaks succeeded in proving.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I think they have muted the possibility of extraditing him to the USA should a request be received from them (and if he were in Australia or presumably it's embassy).

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

So nothing to do with the allegations against him constituting a crime in Australia and not Ecuador?

[LondonTom]

The problem with martyrs today, is they are not willing to face the consequences of up holding their beliefs as a statement.

[Purple Monkey]

this is partly where I'm coming from... there's a guy at work shouting about what a hero he is... maybe he is, but maybe he's not a nice bloke who doesn't know how to treat women as well.

As soon as America is invlolved, there's a whole 'cliche' that lots of people love to cling on to... it MUST be a conspiracy

[abdoujaparov]

I think jumping to any conclusion is dangerous. Most people seem to have already made their minds up - he's either a hero or a rapist, and that seems to be based purely on their political opinion. This story and everything about it is troubling.

[Spindles]

Britain have a longstanding policy that they will not and can not extradite a person to a country where they will be subject to torture or being held without trial. By sending him to Sweden we would circumvent this if he was then taken from there to the states.

If he goes to Sweden he WILL go to the states, he WILL be held without trial, for example see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning

His plan is simple, make noise, make so much noise no one can ignore it, rattle the cages of the very powerful until they do something stupid (eg: threatening to go into an embassy to get him out) and expose what is going on in the world. That is all wikileaks/anonymous/lulzsec is about, plain and simple.

Just as an example of how well this has worked, there have been people in similar situations (hiding in embassies around the world to avoid arrest for political reasons) for extended periods without the same level of attention, including one example where the person has been in the embassy for longer that I have been alive.

Be very careful in believing the slurs against Julian Assange, because in doing so you are inadvertently siding with some of the worst slime on this planet.

[abdoujaparov]

Britain have a longstanding policy that they will not and can not extradite a person to a country where they will be subject to torture or being held without trial. By sending him to Sweden we would circumvent this if he was then taken from there to the states.

[Spindles]

He isn't wanted for charges of rape, to be clear, the charges amount to whether or not he is able to be requested to have an HIV test. The "statutory rape" element of that has been allowed to be played up to rape in the media, but it should be clear that he has not been accused of raping women. What he is accused of is consensually having sex with women without the use of a condom and, in turn, exposing them to risk of HIV.

[abdoujaparov]

He isn't wanted for charges of rape, to be clear, the charges amount to whether or not he is able to be requested to have an HIV test. The "statutory rape" element of that has been allowed to be played up to rape in the media, but it should be clear that he has not been accused of raping women. What he is accused of is consensually having sex with women without the use of a condom and, in turn, exposing them to risk of HIV.

[Spindles]

Well, I am basing my opinion only on what I have read through online news sources, as you say, no one has the full picture. I just base my beliefs on the principle that someone is innocent until proven guilty and therefore allowing the media to tell me someone is a rapist has all the value of allowing the media to tell me someone's landlord is a murderer and a child abuser (joe yates case).

My point is that, whatever faults he may have, the reason that all this fuss exists is that he is the face of wikileaks, which is what they are really trying to get him for, everything else is a smokescreen. His plan is to make enough noise that they do something stupid and expose themselves as hypocrites (they already have and will only get worse).

To be honest the best thing he could do is go to Sweden, because it will shut everyone up when what is clear would happen does happen. I can understand him not being willing to do that, I happen to think the Geneva convention was a good idea.

[abdoujaparov]

My point is that, whatever faults he may have, the reason that all this fuss exists is that he is the face of wikileaks, which is what they are really trying to get him for, everything else is a smokescreen.

[lost]

George Galloway describes it as "Bad Sexual Etiquette"

Galloway said in his podcast: "Woman A met Julian Assange, invited him back to her flat, gave him dinner, went to bed with him, had consensual sex with him. Claims that she woke up to him having sex with her again. Something which can happen, you know...

"Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them.

"It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, 'do you mind if I do it again?'. It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning."

He continued: "I don't believe either of these women, I don't believe either of these stories."

[metallimuse]

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2012/08/legal-myths-about-assange-extradition

[Spindles]

Well, I am sure I won't convince anyone who has an opinion that opposes mine and that similarly I will not be convinced. What I can say, with confidence, is that one of us is likely to be proved correct in the long term and, so far, I have been on the money in that my opinions ended up being proven correct.

I believe that the work that wikileaks and others have been doing is for the benefit of the majority of the population and has become necessary because those who are supposed to look out for our benefit have been looking out for their own. I believe that only through further, leveson style judicial enquiries can this whole sorry mess be sorted out.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

As I understand it if sent to Sweden the US needs the permission of Sweden and the UK while any proceedings are on going to extradite him. After that it is just Sweden but I fail to see how we have reached a point that it would be easier to extradite him from Sweden than the UK? He would still be able to approach the ECHR. In fact given the UK's past record with tied US I would have thought they would have prefered things to happen in the UK.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

George Galloway describes it as "Bad Sexual Etiquette"

[Rufus Gwertigan]

He also says he doesn't believe the women. Why not? Does he know them, or does it 'fit' his agenda?

[abdoujaparov]

there is no evidence, not a jot, that the fact that he is facing accusations of sex offences in Sweden is remotely linked to any future desire on the part of the US to extradite him. All there is is supposition and conspiracy. Conspiracy which flies in the face of the fact that if the US wanted badly enough to extradite him, they could do it more easily from the UK. If the US prosecuting authorities wanted him, they could have sought his extradition from the UK. As I've said before, staging a complex conspiracy (with all the connected risk of people talking) was just not necessary to achieve their aims. Everything else is just window dressing....

It is possible that, despite Assange doing a service in leaking stuff the US would rather stay hidden, he is also not a very nice person who takes advantage of women sexually....

[Spindles]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be questioned, believe me, I am saying that, on the basis of evidence, the greatest chance is that all of this is concocted as a way to draw attention fromwikileaks, the data they are releasing and to discredit the public face.

The evidence is that we cannot trust the media, that they collude with both the police and the politicians and that they regularly publish lies and deliberately mislead the public to further their own agenda, be it to make more money, to control the lawmaking of this or other countries and more. Wikileaks and the anonymous collective, along with legislation passed by the last government have done much to uncover this, look at leveson, look at the arrests that followed.

When accused (correctly) of phone hacking, the news of the world responded with an explanation that information was gathered from paying police for information, in the most matter of fact manner.

I think it is justified to question the reasoning behind and the validity of these claims.

[abdoujaparov]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be questioned, believe me, I am saying that, on the basis of evidence, the greatest chance is that all of this is concocted as a way to draw attention fromwikileaks, the data they are releasing and to discredit the public face.

The evidence is that we cannot trust the media, that they collude with both the police and the politicians and that they regularly publish lies and deliberately mislead the public to further their own agenda, be it to make more money, to control the lawmaking of this or other countries and more. Wikileaks and the anonymous collective, along with legislation passed by the last government have done much to uncover this, look at leveson, look at the arrests that followed.

When accused (correctly) of phone hacking, the news of the world responded with an explanation that information was gathered from paying police for information, in the most matter of fact manner.

I think it is justified to question the reasoning behind and the validity of these claims.

[Spindles]

Like I say, I don't expect to bring you around to my thinking, nor vice versa. I believe that there are people in positions of power behind this, yes and that ALL of the above are linked and that, in time this will be seen to be the case. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't expect so, simply because everything that is coming out on an almost daily basis now points to the fact that things are very, very wrong in the world right now.

The only thing I do know is that no one has been found guilty in a court yet, but clearly have in some sections of the press. I'm not trying to convince anyone, it's just a thread where people's opinion's were asked, I posted mine. I do think there is a link between what was going on at the notw and the current administration (and clearly the police that have looked at the evidence and arrested andy coulson would agree) and I think that some of the things that have come out of wikileaks show that framing someone would be exactly the behaviour of some of the people who are much more concerned about reducing people's freedoms so that they can feather their own nests.

Sorry if my views offend you, not an intention, I can assure you, but I am entitled to them just the same.

[abdoujaparov]

Like I say, I don't expect to bring you around to my thinking, nor vice versa. I believe that there are people in positions of power behind this, yes and that ALL of the above are linked and that, in time this will be seen to be the case. I could be wrong, of course, but I don't expect so, simply because everything that is coming out on an almost daily basis now points to the fact that things are very, very wrong in the world right now.

The only thing I do know is that no one has been found guilty in a court yet, but clearly have in some sections of the press. I'm not trying to convince anyone, it's just a thread where people's opinion's were asked, I posted mine. I do think there is a link between what was going on at the notw and the current administration (and clearly the police that have looked at the evidence and arrested andy coulson would agree) and I think that some of the things that have come out of wikileaks show that framing someone would be exactly the behaviour of some of the people who are much more concerned about reducing people's freedoms so that they can feather their own nests.

Sorry if my views offend you, not an intention, I can assure you, but I am entitled to them just the same.

[Spindles]

Well, I'll just end by saying that an awfully large number of people have decided that he is guilty and that (and I do not know you, can't speak for your beliefs or views) largely those people seem to be the same ones arguing for cutting benefits, less regulation of the very people we cannot trust and some truly nasty views regarding immigrants, the disabled and the poor.

When I see those people putting so much faith in his guilt so vehemently and frequently it only helps to enforce my view that this is a smear. As I say, neither of us can be proven right or wrong today, we both have only speculation and opinion to work with.

[grumpyhack]

The evidence is that we cannot trust the media, that they collude with both the police and the politicians and that they regularly publish lies and deliberately mislead the public to further their own agenda,

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