Rolling Stones...

[The Nal]

Doom & Gloom being recorded to fit on the end of yet another greatest hits compilation? Whats the difference?

The difference is the Stones are a band. Musicians. Thats what musicians do.

Bouncy's just better at diversifying - its all product in the end.

No its not. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Happy mean a lot to millions of people. Including me. They were written, recorded, packaged and sold sure. But its not the same as some businesswomen using an entire team of brand managers, song writer, promo people etc to sell bottles of perfume.

So your not a Bob Dylan ( in lingerie adverts) or Jack WHite ( wrote song for a Coca Cola commerical) fan then?

Dylan has sadly done a few commercials. Apple and Bank of Montreal aswell. Which I hate. Jack White too.

Dylan selling The Times They Are a Changin' to a bank was a disgrace. But its a blip in a 50 year career. I can handle that. Beyonce (and others) focus is 100% about sponsership and making money.

I'm not naive enough to think it doesn't happen and I don't think everyone should be struck off the artistic register forever if they do. Although in an ideal world I would.

Nearly everyone has sold their music for ads in Japan for example, but we don't hear about it. But all that takes is "yes ok" from the musicians in question.

Spending all your time dealing with promotion companies is a different thing altogether.

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Nal

[Wooderson]

They better have choppers on standby near the Pyramid from people passing out laughing during the Stones. Those 4 lads - Watts included - are absolute HAMS. Four blues and money obsessed toffs.

Say what you like about Beyonce or even JayZ. They made an effort. The Stones couldnt give a shite about Glastonbury. Never have done.

[abdoujaparov]

Whichever way he leans Frank Turner has a political message, and Glastonbury 2013 is no place for political messages.

thank you for that - it just made me spray tea out of my nose

[Ted Dansons Wig]

The difference is the Stones are a band. Musicians. Thats what musicians do.

No its not. Songs like Gimme Shelter and Happy mean a lot to millions of people. Including me. They were written, recorded, packaged and sold sure. But its not the same as some businesswomen using an entire team of brand managers, song writer, promo people etc to sell bottles of perfume.

Dylan has sadly done a few commercials. Apple and Bank of Montreal aswell. Which I hate. Jack White too.

Dylan selling The Times They Are a Changin' to a bank was a disgrace. But its a blip in a 50 year career. I can handle that. Beyonce (and others) focus is 100% about sponsership and making money.

Woah there Tex - not arguing about the relative value of Beyonce versus the Stones. Just saying the prime reason it exists at all is to sell product and the difference is only in the way its used. No profit - no Exile on Main Street - no Darkness on the edge of Town - no Blonde on Blonde.

Doesnt lessen the intrinsic value of whats produced. And its not even a new thing - Van Gogh produced and sold paintings to order. Its a commercial transaction no more no less.

[The Nal]

Say what you like about Beyonce or even JayZ. They made an effort. The Stones couldnt give a shite about Glastonbury. Never have done.

The Stones don't give a shit about anything chief. They never claimed to have done. I respect that. At least you know what you get!

Beyonce/Jay-Z et al are sly fucks. Its all "Thank you Jesus" and fake genuinity before they sneak off to Castle Greyskull to sit around with their marketing teams and discuss how to sneak a product placement lyric into a song.

Same goes for all that American lot. Black Eyed Peas probably being the worst offenders. Again, as anti Glastonbury as you can get. A load of poor bastards waiting to see a gig round the West Holts and getting a bunch of chancers coming on stage and singing Coca Cola and Chevy jingles at them, for 90 minutes.

The company who do it are called "My Love Affair". And they have a shitload of people signed up. 150 brands, EMI on board, the lot.

Its a commercial transaction no more no less.

Agreed. But very different reasons behind it. Sorry, the old hopeless romantic in me shining through.

I still listen to Son House and picture him getting handed his two pieces of chicken as payment after the gig!

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Nal

[Ted Dansons Wig]

Fuck me - those My Love Affair people need to suffer horribly.

[swede]

When did this thread become about Frank Turner?

I doubt he'd headline any time soon, at least not Pyramid anyway.

He manages to pop up in every thread at the minute, the guy is like wild fire.

[1waveydavey]

the problem with Frank Turner's politics is twofold. First, he is a right wing libertarian. Second, he's mislead (consciously or unconsciously) a lot of people into believing that his sympathies lie elsewhere. I know lots of people who have been genuinely shocked that he is not the left-leaning liberal they thought he was

Hmmm... I guess this debate should be in another thread really.

The problem... I genuinely dont think Frank has tried conciously or otherwise to mislead anybody, I have read and found him to be very honest about what he has to say. I also believe his politics are a lot more open minded and do not sit squarely anywhere. Some of his views I agree with, others not. Thats ok though, I'd happily debate the difference with him and know he would listen and argue his own.

Anyway, I'm getting somewhere I really dont want to be, it is not for me to deliver anybody elses political views, just my own. If it is important enough I guess PM me and we can carry on the debate but I'm guessing it really isnt.

Back to The Stones I think which is what this thread is really about.

[eFestivals]

The company who do it are called "My Love Affair". And they have a shitload of people signed up. 150 brands, EMI on board, the lot.

death to David Guetta and family.

[The Nal]

You know who I feel sorry for in all this? Vanilla Ice.

The poor fucker did a couple of commercials and appeared in the Ninja turtles movie in his early 20s and people wanted to see him beheaded. Beyonce, Jay-Z and The Black Eyed Peas are a lot more cynical and sly about it and they have tens of thousands of people charging stark naked into Pilton to get a glimpse of them.

[denwyn]

Ive only seen them once in Knebworth in 1976, and from what i can remember they were not bad at all, those days have long gone for them now, i think should ME manage to book them i would give them a miss, there a bit old hat now. Why not book a Stones tribute act, i'm sure they would be much better ; )

[APPLES77]

You know who I feel sorry for in all this? Vanilla Ice.

The poor fucker did a couple of commercials and appeared in the Ninja turtles movie in his early 20s and people wanted to see him beheaded. Beyonce, Jay-Z and The Black Eyed Peas are a lot more cynical and sly about it and they have tens of thousands of people charging stark naked into Pilton to get a glimpse of them.

I feel more sorry for him over the whole being forced to sign over his music for peanuts whilst held over the edge of a balcony by his ankles episode

[zahidf]

Whichever way he leans Frank Turner has a political message, and Glastonbury 2013 is no place for political messages.

Guess they need to abolish the leftfield area sharpish:-)

I'd say glastonbury is very much a political festival,

[mrtourette]

Guess they need to abolish the leftfield area sharpish:-)

I'd say glastonbury is very much a political festival,

It was a fucking joke, based on all the recent comments that the festival isn't what it used to be.

Edited October 16, 2012 by mrtourette

[Badlands]

While I can see the point about people being offended by Beyonce and Jay-Z due to their product placement, for me that pales insignificance when compared to a band expecting their fans to pay £450 for a ticket to their show. I nearly Ashley Cole'd the car off the road when I heard it in the car yesterday. I still can't get my head round it, especially comparing it like for like to Waters, Macca, The Who etc.

Fuck em.

[Arronbury]

It's you that needs to grow up,

love that the "straight talking journalist's" best argument is "if that's what I am what are you"

You'll be threatening wedgies before we know it.

recognise that your opinion means fuck all except to yourself.

Which is why you have commented several times on every single post of mine. Shown them to your wife, Swearing, threatening, name calling but no... My opinion means diddle squat to you of course.

Let's see how long it takes for you to not care about this so much that you and your playground chums start harassing me again.

[mrtourette]

As for Beyonce et al yes it is largely sickening but they're only continuing what The Stones and The Beatles were doing back in the sixties, taking it as far as society will deem acceptable. It wasn't as 'bad' decades ago because there wasn't the infrustructure there to tie in as much as they do now, to reach such a wide audeince with so many products or for people to be so willing to lap it up. Nor was there such a backlash against that sort of thing. So while the desire to promote oneself mainfests itself in different ways over time (gradually becoming more and more garish and unabashed) the motivation and lack of shame behind it has pretty much been the same throughout history.

To try and compare the two is pretty pointless as times are so different, the question would be that if The Stones were twentysomethings now would they be whoring themsleves out to the degree that pop stars today do, or would they be just a standard band happy to accept average ticket prices and the like.

Edited October 16, 2012 by mrtourette

[Ted Dansons Wig]

As for Beyonce et al yes it is largely sickening but they're only continuing what The Stones and The Beatles were doing back in the sixties, taking it as far as society will deem acceptable. It wasn't as 'bad' decades ago because there wasn't the infrustructure there to tie in as much as they do now, to reach such a wide audeince with so many products or for people to be so willing to lap it up. Nor was there such a backlash against that sort of thing. So while the desire to promote oneself mainfests itself in different ways over time (gradually becoming more and more garish and unabashed) the motivation and lack of shame behind it has pretty much been the same throughout history.

To try and compare the two is pretty pointless as times are so different, the question would be that if The Stones were twentysomethings now would they be whoring themsleves out to the degree that pop stars today do, or would they be just a standard band happy to accept average ticket prices and the like.

A sensible post without any name calling on this thread? Letting the side down

[CaledonianGonzo]

Those who reckon the Stones haven't been good live for 40 years (i.e. The Nal) should take a listen to Hampton '81 on Stones Archive. If that's a band phoning it in then I'm a monkey's uncle.

There are even some Emotional Rescue tracks on it for Neil.

(The Still Life live album from the same period is cobblers, mind).

[CaledonianGonzo]

Where does The Stones' Rice Krispies jingle fit into this commercialism vs. art debate?

Though from memory it was Brian Jones that wrote it and look what happened to him.

[The Nal]

To try and compare the two is pretty pointless as times are so different, the question would be that if The Stones were twentysomethings now would they be whoring themsleves out to the degree that pop stars today do, or would they be just a standard band happy to accept average ticket prices and the like.

they didn't charge average ticket prices back then. they were always expensive.

Those who reckon the Stones haven't been good live for 40 years (i.e. The Nal) should take a listen to Hampton '81 on Stones Archive. If that's a band phoning it in then I'm a monkey's uncle.

I did say something like "apart from the occasional moment". That was one of them(ish). My main issue with post mid 70s Stones, apart from the lack of Mick Taylor, is Micks voice. He sort of parodied himself from that point on. Lots of Sly Stallone style "eh yo" sounds going on.

And I know he always wore silly clobber, but the sports bra and knee pads on that tour were a bit much!

But I'm comparing them from such a high starting point. The Exile tour is as good a rock band as theres ever been.

Where does The Stones' Rice Krispies jingle fit into this commercialism vs. art debate?

Though from memory it was Brian Jones that wrote it and look what happened to him.

It was a lot more innocent back then and nowhere near as distracting. They were banging out albums in a week at that time. And in fairness to the Stones, they were one of those bands who reinvested anything back into the band. The famed "Rolling Stones Mobile Studio" for example.

Edited October 16, 2012 by The Nal

[CaledonianGonzo]

Actually, the LA Friday show (LA Forum 1975) is also great and shows that - for a while at least - Ronnie wasn't such a marked step down from the Mick Taylor years. Mick's voice is a little all over the place on it (blame the mountains of coke he was doing at the time) but the band are on fire.

I'd also argue that Mick's voice improved a lot from its nadir in the mid to late 1970s. The vocals you get from him now are lot better than what he was capable of in 1978.

Not that I agree, but as an aside Taylor is always divisive for Stones fans - there are plenty of them that detest his dominant solo-ing and find the guitar-weaving that came letter preferable by far.

[mrtourette]

they didn't charge average ticket prices back then. they were always expensive.

Didn't say anything about what prices they charged back then.

[sjseabass]

Surely we can agree that anyone who thinks someone is not 'deserving' (whatever that means) of a ticket to a festival because they won't go to see one solitary band out of hundreds (thousands?) playing is deserving of the contempt Neil is showing them?

[russycarps]

Surely we can agree that anyone who thinks someone is not 'deserving' (whatever that means) of a ticket to a festival because they won't go to see one solitary band out of hundreds (thousands?) playing is deserving of the contempt Neil is showing them?

not really. I think anyone who chose not to see leonard cohen in 2008 (or whenever it was) is not deserving of a ticket.