more shocking stuff from Obama - Monsanto Protection Act

[russycarps]

have you read about this? Incredible stuff.

Yet another shocking decision from the man who continues to slaughter (an estimated) 50 innocent civilians for every militant (whatever the definition of that is) killed by drones strikes. Including children of course, and also American citizens. Obama has the power to kill US citizens abroad without trial, so I guess at least he isnt discriminatory

The number of drone attacks has increase exponentially since Obama took over from Bush.

But of course, those in North Korea, Iran etc are the real bad guys of the world, right?

But I digress, this is his latest shameful decision:

http://www.ibtimes.com/monsanto-protection-act-5-terrifying-things-know-about-hr-933-provision-1156079#

[russycarps]

I think we have a new worm....

[abdoujaparov]

It's friday and I am trying to start a discussion if that's what you mean, isnt that what this forum is for?

but can you deny any of the points in my post?

I'm happy to explain any points that arent clear.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

have you read about this? Incredible stuff.

Yet another shocking decision from the man who continues to slaughter (an estimated) 50 innocent civilians for every militant (whatever the definition of that is) killed by drones strikes. Including children of course, and also American citizens. Obama has the power to kill US citizens abroad without trial, so I guess at least he isnt discriminatory

The number of drone attacks has increase exponentially since Obama took over from Bush.

But of course, those in North Korea, Iran etc are the real bad guys of the world, right?

But I digress, this is his latest shameful decision:

http://www.ibtimes.com/monsanto-protection-act-5-terrifying-things-know-about-hr-933-provision-1156079#

Edited April 19, 2013 by Rufus Gwertigan

[russycarps]

No need. You are perfectly clear.

You are right - the image the US would like to portray as the champion of freedom and the morally virtuous world policeman is an absolute sham.

[russycarps]

The way I have interpreted it is the clause offers protection to farmers that have already planted and invested in crops that the USDA I initially had cleared but then later court cases by some groups ruled them "illegal". Hence the lifespan of the legislation. Essentially it means that farmers don't gave to dig up crops or dispose of already purchased seeds.

Edited April 19, 2013 by russycarps

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I think you are giving them way too much credit.

Monsanto are a horrible company.

They are the ones who helped facilitate the so called 'green revolution' in India, where farmers were encouraged to buy GM rice and wheat seeds that would give 3 yields a year rather than 2. The rub was the seeds wouldn't grow unless you used expensive Monsanto fertilizer.

The result: poor Indian farmers couldn't afford the full package, so bankrupted themselves with massive loans, and the farms were taken over by huge food companies.

A nasty little side product is a huge rise in suicides among the farmers

[t8yman]

people obviously need to read up a bit on Monsanto, one of the most evil corporations on the planet. some people have a fuzzy warm view of them, feeding the world, developing seeds that can grow in impossible conditions. They develop seeds that die after one crop, so that the farmers have to buy their seeds every year from monsanto, and if monsanto find their seedlings growing in any field they havent licensed (yes, even via airborn cross pollination) they sue the arse off the owner of that land.

they are massive bastards

[Rufus Gwertigan]

people obviously need to read up a bit on Monsanto, one of the most evil corporations on the planet. some people have a fuzzy warm view of them, feeding the world, developing seeds that can grow in impossible conditions. They develop seeds that die after one crop, so that the farmers have to buy their seeds every year from monsanto, and if monsanto find their seedlings growing in any field they havent licensed (yes, even via airborn cross pollination) they sue the arse off the owner of that land.

they are massive bastards

Edited April 19, 2013 by Rufus Gwertigan

[t8yman]

not being a smart arse Rufus, but that post makes no sense, did you type it fast - I dont get what you are saying...

[russycarps]

Really I thought itveas cotton that Monsanto pushed? Also I question the suicide rates.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers'_suicides_in_India

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/collideascape/2012/05/09/how-seeds-of-a-false-story-took-root-and-spread/

I am under no illusion that Monsanto, like all the other GM producers, is good at doing its job i.e. making money, even if in a seemingly aggressive manner. However mist people would rather believe the hype first and foremost.

Edited April 19, 2013 by russycarps

[Rufus Gwertigan]

not being a smart arse Rufus, but that post makes no sense, did you type it fast - I dont get what you are saying...

Edited April 19, 2013 by Rufus Gwertigan

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I know what you mean about the hype, but from what I have read (I am by no means pretending to be an expert mind! and of course articles on the internet need to be taken with a dose of salt) I think this is one company that does justify this hype.

It's not just cotton, its wheat, soybeans, and others.

I know they are not solely to blame for the suicides, the money lenders with the 60% interest rates and the failed government schemes dont help, along with the cultural issues surrounding debt, but this is a hideous company.

Obama jumping into bed with them in such a sly way is disgraceful really.

[abdoujaparov]

people obviously need to read up a bit on Monsanto, one of the most evil corporations on the planet.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Can I just ask a general question. What, or who, forces the farmers in the US to buy GM seeds year in and year out? Surely they can buy none GM seeds? There contract with a GM company is for a season and they agree not to save seeds or replant. After that they are free to move elsewhere.

[russycarps]

Can I just ask a general question. What, or who, forces the farmers in the US to buy GM seeds year in and year out? Surely they can buy none GM seeds? There contract with a GM company is for a season and they agree not to save seeds or replant. After that they are free to move elsewhere.

Edited April 19, 2013 by russycarps

[zero000]

I thought all this stuff about Monsanto was just hyperbole from the GM hate brigade but the more and more I've looked at it this morning the more of a horrendous company they seem to be. Yes to GM, no to Monsanto.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I'm not 100% sure, but isnt it very hard to find a seed that isnt from monsanto, or descended from a monsanto seed, as the company is so vast and dominates the industry so much?

I guess the small amout of seeds that are free of monsanto influence are much more expensive.

I'm sure the farmers themselves are no angels, and see something cheap so use it.

Not sure though

[gary1979666]

Also need to be careful about throwing the GM term around, as a lot of the seed varieties that you're talking about are bred that way, rather than having their DNA changed as such.

The seeds which are 'one use' are normally hybrid seeds - we have hybrid barley in the UK (not GM). The yields are better than regular seeds, but will only work for one season after sale from the distributor. The reason the seed companies do this is because the farmers keep seed back and many don't declare this to avoid paying the farm saved seed royalty to the seed co, which is costing them a lot.

I worked for Syngenta Seeds, which had the lions share of barley seeds in the UK, but they didn't make much margin on the seeds they sold - as the R&D the spend to develop better yielding seeds was so high. OK, their agrochemoical division was doing very well, but the general feel was that both companies were trying to help british farmers, rather than be money grabbing corporations. Yeah they made decent returns, but the UK teams did it without screwing the farmers and tried to provided as much help and advice as possible.

[russycarps]

As far as I know GM are more expensive but the reliability of production is far better. I think the market us going to be flooded after next year with generic Round Up Ready Soybean seeds as the patent expires.

It sounds like I defending the company, or all the GM companys, but I am not. I am opposed to GM in our food chain, not GM in principle, but I feel that much of the opposition is not based on actual facts.

[russycarps]

Also need to be careful about throwing the GM term around, as a lot of the seed varieties that you're talking about are bred that way, rather than having their DNA changed as such.

The seeds which are 'one use' are normally hybrid seeds - we have hybrid barley in the UK (not GM). The yields are better than regular seeds, but will only work for one season after sale from the distributor. The reason the seed companies do this is because the farmers keep seed back and many don't declare this to avoid paying the farm saved seed royalty to the seed co, which is costing them a lot.

I worked for Syngenta Seeds, which had the lions share of barley seeds in the UK, but they didn't make much margin on the seeds they sold - as the R&D the spend to develop better yielding seeds was so high. OK, their agrochemoical division was doing very well, but the general feel was that both companies were trying to help british farmers, rather than be money grabbing corporations. Yeah they made decent returns, but the UK teams did it without screwing the farmers and tried to provided as much help and advice as possible.

[Spindles]

Also, to blame this on Obama is a little off the mark. I had read that this is a result of an amendment snuck in by a senator whose wife works for monsanto, the same senator had previously been caught out and prevented from doing the same with a tobacco company that his wife was working for at that time on another bill.

[zero000]

Has anyone ever died from GM food ? Any one proven to have been harmed by it outside of the whack jobs posting unproven bollocks all over the web ?

GM doesn't worry me at all.... We have little choice given the demands on food we face.

[t8yman]

Has anyone ever died from GM food ? Any one proven to have been harmed by it outside of the whack jobs posting unproven bollocks all over the web ?

GM doesn't worry me at all.... We have little choice given the demands on food we face.