PRISM- Scary or not?

[t8yman]

I had a conversation with a friend of mine last night over a pint and a game of pool that completely amazed me. I started by saying how I found it amazing that the US or UK govt can read every email, see any facebook photo, or check anyones online address book. He responded with "I think the government should be allowed to do that" which absolutely floored me, I was so stunned that I had no real cohesive response other than "seriously? you are OK with that" and he trotted out the old "if you've got nothing to hide" argument, which again - floored me. I thought he was a well read, well thought out guy, and nothing I said got even close to ruffling his feathers. It didnt help that we were on our 4th pint, which completely erased any of my well thought out arguments against this. He also said that he thinks ID cards are a great idea, etc etc etc. And he was also OK about catching criminals by ignoring due process. I asked him if he would be OK if he came home one day to find a policeman taking his mail from the postman, opening it, and posting it through his door after he had read it? He said "if he's got a good reason"!!

Does anyone else really feel like that?

Does anyone know of a really good (short) article about state intrusion, or erosion of personal freedom that I can send him in the vain hope that he might actually read it?

[lost]

there's a good post on Reddit regarding this 3rd one down in yellow.

http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_government_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl?context=3

[hot_ice]

ive always worked on the assumption that if governments wants your information i.e emails, telephone records , they will get it, whether legal or illegal?

[mrtourette]

Some people have different opinions, just because he thinks differently doesn't mean that he isn't educated or well-read on the subject, or that he can be 'fixed' by an article on state intrusion. If you thought he was well read and well thought out guy then he probably is, he just values different things.

I'm uneasy with the whole thing but I also know people who aren't and who don't have an issue with it. Just sort of shrug and take the same 'I've got nothign to hide attitude', a different way of looking at it I guess.

There was an interesting point made in a BBC article when this broke, that in future years people will be impressed at how easily the likes of facbook, google, etc. managed to persuade us to give up private information (or the rights to our private information), and saying it really is alarming how little people know about what they're giving up just so they can post a picture of themselves to as many people as possible.

Edited June 12, 2013 by mrtourette

[mrtourette]

ive always worked on the assumption that if governments wants your information i.e emails, telephone records , they will get it, whether legal or illegal?

[Ed209]

don't agree with it, but i think you'd have had to been pretty naive to think this wasn't going on

[Purple Monkey]

"If you've got nothing to hide" - anyone that says this can go fuck themselves.

[t8yman]

That reddit article was a good read. Im not naive enough to think it wasnt possible. I am surprised that the nsa or whoever can access it without a warrant. And I am interested to learn exactly what part the web companies truly have in all this.

[When Jokers Attack]

there's a good post on Reddit regarding this 3rd one down in yellow.

http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/i_believe_the_government_should_be_allowed_to/caeb3pl?context=3

[philipsteak]

Looks like the tin foil hat wearers were right all along

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA-Ueh1DtdQ

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

As long as this information is stored someone will be able to access it, be that governements. Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, the bloke managing the servers / databases.

[Purple Monkey]

It's not surprising though is it? Is anyone really shocked?

People in power will do whatever it takes to keep it. There is no right and wrong, only the powerful and the powerless. The problem with the world is its full of psychopathic pricks at the very top who are so beyond monetary concerns that it's all about self actualisation through power - and that comes from control. Right or wrong at this point means diddly squat to these people.

Wall Street, governments, banks, large corporations - a cabal of vampires never satisfied with what they already have - it's not about money, they just want more power over more people, at absolutely any cost, ANY. The bastards of Nestlé want more power - they will literally destroy lives to get it. Monsanto? Same thing. It happens all the time and this NSA thing is as predictable as anything else. It's just the biggest most powerful twats with power grabbing more of it, regardless of the gain. It's there and they want it and nobody will stop them. The object of power is power and all that.

It's pure ego, gone cancerous. It's the milkshake scene from There Will Be Blood, it's the Silverbacks flexing their muscles. Tragic on an epic scale.

No Surprises by Radiohead summed it all up

Edited June 12, 2013 by Purple Monkey

[viberunner]

What has made me laugh about Prism is how people are somehow surprised by this!

I've known the NSA had a backdoor into every major US software production since "NSA Key" was found in Windows in 1999.

It's scary if you're a terrorist or enough of a dissident to threaten the NSA. Otherwise who cares? Yes the Spooks are listening. They can listen to Prodigy remixes and my rambling about building a paper X-Wing model all they like...

I keep my illegal conversations offline... everyone should.

[eFestivals]

What has made me laugh about Prism is how people are somehow surprised by this!

I've known the NSA had a backdoor into every major US software production since "NSA Key" was found in Windows in 1999.

you sure you didn't hear that from some bloke down the pub (© Barry Fish)?

Cos I've known for longer than that that every software product authorised for high level use within the US govt has numerous back-doors, for use by both the software producer and govt agents.

[viberunner]

you sure you didn't hear that from some bloke down the pub (© Barry Fish)?

Cos I've known for longer than that that every software product authorised for high level use within the US govt has numerous back-doors, for use by both the software producer and govt agents.

[viberunner]

What is wearing me down about is people saying this when its by and large not true.

I think the vast majority of people suspected it but thought we would never find out fro real.... and now are just reacting angrily to it being confirmed.

[eFestivals]

How did you "know"? Suspect? Yes, everyone in software (that I know of) suspected. But the NSA Key was the one of the first parts of the public proof (that I am aware of).

What evidence did you have of NSA backdoors prior to 1999? And was it public evidence?

I bloke down the pub told me.

Not quite that, but not so far away from it. I was told by someone who knew for definite because he was involved with such things for a major software company.

[eFestivals]

You wouldn't believe how many of the worlds great minds are knocking around Bristol pubs!!

or alternatively, who I've known since the age of three.

[viberunner]

The NSA key wasn't really cast iron proof though...

[Rufus Gwertigan]

I had a conversation with a friend of mine last night over a pint and a game of pool that completely amazed me. I started by saying how I found it amazing that the US or UK govt can read every email, see any facebook photo, or check anyones online address book. He responded with "I think the government should be allowed to do that" which absolutely floored me, I was so stunned that I had no real cohesive response other than "seriously? you are OK with that" and he trotted out the old "if you've got nothing to hide" argument, which again - floored me. I thought he was a well read, well thought out guy, and nothing I said got even close to ruffling his feathers. It didnt help that we were on our 4th pint, which completely erased any of my well thought out arguments against this. He also said that he thinks ID cards are a great idea, etc etc etc. And he was also OK about catching criminals by ignoring due process. I asked him if he would be OK if he came home one day to find a policeman taking his mail from the postman, opening it, and posting it through his door after he had read it? He said "if he's got a good reason"!!

Does anyone else really feel like that?

Does anyone know of a really good (short) article about state intrusion, or erosion of personal freedom that I can send him in the vain hope that he might actually read it?

[the_hedge]

I'm probably a bit Naive but I couldn't care less. They can poke around my emails and facebook all they want, there is nothing interesting in there.

I think at worse they will sell the data for more targeted marketing. i don't think the government wants to use it to control us.

[viberunner]

I bloke down the pub told me.

Not quite that, but not so far away from it. I was told by someone who knew for definite because he was involved with such things for a major software company.

[eFestivals]

But that's bespoke software. Doing it in public software is more risky due to decompilation, packet sniffers, and other forms of h4x0r detection.

I'm going back nearly twenty years now, when there was less suspicion of such things - but it was a requirement to get the software onto the US govt's authorised list for use at a particular security level (I forget most of the details now). At the time Windows NT didn't meet the govts requirements (tho I think that was about the OS security not being up to much, rather than them not giving the govt the back-door access they wanted).

[eFestivals]

The UK govt have banned Snowden from the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22902098

He's not committed any crime, and at first thought you'd think the UK would want him as an easy way to get him back to the USA.

But that would involve court hearings, and with Snowden's knowledge of what goes on, the process is likely to unearth some embarrassing documents for the UK govt.

Which suggests that there's plenty that the UK govt doesn't want it's own citizens to know they're doing.

[Spindles]

Nice find, interesting reading.