Football 2013-2014

[eFestivals]

I think palace are the weakest squad since burnley (whenever they were in the league) but may be missing someone.

Chamahk has only had two shots on target all season - from nine games.

The jobs a good'un for whoever takes over tho - with the parachute payment they should be in a good position to bounce back up again, if the guy they gets is any good.

Edited November 5, 2013 by eFestivals

[pink_triangle]

Chamahk has only had two shots on target all season - from nine games.

The jobs a good'un for whoever takes over tho - with the parachute payment they should be in a good position to bounce back up again, if the guy they gets is any good.

[TheGayTent]

Looks like 2 of the 3 relegated clubs from last season aren't going to bounce back automatically, even with the advantage of parachute payments. The 3rd of those clubs are in contention for an automatic promotion slot, but they're not running away with anything.

[eFestivals]

Looks like 2 of the 3 relegated clubs from last season aren't going to bounce back automatically, even with the advantage of parachute payments. The 3rd of those clubs are in contention for an automatic promotion slot, but they're not running away with anything.

yeah, but I'd bet those clubs were overwhelmed with debt at the point they'd been relegated, and the parachute payments were needed for that.

Unless Palace have managed to screw up in the last few years, they should be relatively debt free, shouldn't they?

[zahidf]

_{http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/04/racist-abuse-yaya-toure-john-barnes}

So, is John Barnes saying that if you're rich, you should stop caring if people are racist to you? Or that only some forms of racism are ok to have a go at?

Not sure what his point is exactly.

[kaosmark2]

_{http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/04/racist-abuse-yaya-toure-john-barnes}

So, is John Barnes saying that if you're rich, you should stop caring if people are racist to you? Or that only some forms of racism are ok to have a go at?

Not sure what his point is exactly.

[eFestivals]

Guardian are reporting that M O'N and Roy Keane are getting the Ireland job.

[eFestivals]

_{http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/04/racist-abuse-yaya-toure-john-barnes}

So, is John Barnes saying that if you're rich, you should stop caring if people are racist to you? Or that only some forms of racism are ok to have a go at?

Not sure what his point is exactly.

His point is that racism has a real meaning that footballers probably can't grasp due to their wealth and success.

Poorly put across and largely irrelevant though. If society views it as acceptable to racially abuse a footballer because "they should be able to take it" that sends a wrong message that echoes through society.

I read it as something different to that - that he's saying we shouldn't be pointing the finger at foreigners saying "look at how bad those foreigners are" when there's still plenty of active but-not-explicit racism within this country.

And he's of course right.

[zahidf]

I read it as something different to that - that he's saying we shouldn't be pointing the finger at foreigners saying "look at how bad those foreigners are" when there's still plenty of active but-not-explicit racism within this country.

And he's of course right.

Edited November 5, 2013 by zahidf

[TheGayTent]

yeah, but I'd bet those clubs were overwhelmed with debt at the point they'd been relegated, and the parachute payments were needed for that.

Unless Palace have managed to screw up in the last few years, they should be relatively debt free, shouldn't they?

[TheGayTent]

Guardian are reporting that M O'N and Roy Keane are getting the Ireland job.

[eFestivals]

I don't know any of their accounts in great detail, but the impression I have is that neither Wigan or Reading are in any great financial problems?

they might not have "financial problems" but they've got owners who've sunk a lot of money into those clubs - and having dropped down there's little chance of seeing much back unless they pocket the parachute payments.

As far as i'm aware, Palace have only been out of administration a few years, so that will have lifted any big debt burden from them I'd have thought. As long as they've not gone spend-crazy since they shouldn't really have anything of any size.

[TheGayTent]

they might not have "financial problems" but they've got owners who've sunk a lot of money into those clubs - and having dropped down there's little chance of seeing much back unless they pocket the parachute payments.

As far as i'm aware, Palace have only been out of administration a few years, so that will have lifted any big debt burden from them I'd have thought. As long as they've not gone spend-crazy since they shouldn't really have anything of any size.

Edited November 5, 2013 by TheGayTent

[kaosmark2]

I read it as something different to that - that he's saying we shouldn't be pointing the finger at foreigners saying "look at how bad those foreigners are" when there's still plenty of active but-not-explicit racism within this country.

And he's of course right.

[eFestivals]

True, but then, he goes on to defend John Terry and Suarez because of the way they were brought up, so not sure what that's all about.

that their racism is a consequence of the racist society we exist within, and that the issue is society and not the individuals that a racist society affects?

Also, under his logic, we should then not punish clubs until we solve racism in wider society? Surely the punishment is meant to educate?

I took it as being that we can only keep our own house in order and yet we don't (as Barnes points out).

I find the UK's moral superiority about things like racism and homophobia as laughable in many ways .... if we ignore the MANY big issues that still exist for both and pretend we've cracked it, then all we have behind that moral superiority is about 20 years for racism and 10 years for homophobia, and before then we were little different to what seems to be the situation in Russia today.

Does every society on earth have to be instantaneously in-step with what is today's official moral position in the UK? While it might be nice for our peace of mind if they were, to expect it is ridiculous moral imperialism.

Just as we've had to in the UK, modern life will make them face up to these issues sooner or later. It can't be pushed onto them.

Edited November 5, 2013 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

Guardian are reporting that M O'N and Roy Keane are getting the Ireland job.

[kaosmark2]

One of Palace's issues IMO is not just a lack of talent compared to their premier league rivals, it's that they've changed too many faces too quickly. Instead of adding to the squad they had, they've basically tried to buy a whole new one. They've brought something like 15 players in and let 10 go. They're a new team, adapting to a new league.

Whether they can bounce back (were they to get relegated as looks likely) is how they manage that change again at the end of the season/start of next.

Have the players that have been signed, been signed on sensible deals? Wage levels? Lengths of contracts? Relegation clauses? Type of player that will knuckle down and work for the team next season or type of player that will be off at the first sniff of another opportunity at a higher level.

Plus of course, the calibre of manager they can attract.

[zahidf]

that their racism is a consequence of the racist society we exist within, and that the issue is society and not the individuals that a racist society affects?

I took it as being that we can only keep our own house in order and yet we don't (as Barnes points out).

I find the UK's moral superiority about things like racism and homophobia as laughable in many ways .... if we ignore the MANY big issues that still exist for both and pretend we've cracked it, then all we have behind that moral superiority is about 20 years for racism and 10 years for homophobia, and before then we were little different to what seems to be the situation in Russia today.

Does every society on earth have to be instantaneously in-step with what is today's official moral position in the UK? While it might be nice for our peace of mind if they were, to expect it is ridiculous moral imperialism.

Just as we've had to in the UK, modern life will make them face up to these issues sooner or later. It can't be pushed onto them.

[eFestivals]

But modern day society in the UK makes what Terry and Suarez did not acceptable.

Modern day society gives a mixed message.

Surely expressing what they did was wrong and punishing them is perfectly right?

yep, but it's also used as a sideshow, a distraction from the fact that not very much has actually moved at all, aside from the acceptability of explicitly expressing racism. We pat ourselves on the back for condemning the likes of Terry and then go back to being very racist.

<an aside>

There was an article on local TV here last week, about how in Bristol - a very multicultural city, and not particularly troubled by it - two people (one white, one not) applied for the same jobs, and the non-white was told on over half of the occasions that the job had already gone.

</aside>

The point of international competitions is that the fans/clubs have a standard they have to adhere to to play in them. If a club or their fanbase can't control their racist elements, then why should they benefit from playing in international competitions?

I think I must have read a different article.

Nowhere does he argue for no sanctions, he's merely pointing how it's used as a diversion from our own issues, for how it allows us to pretend we don't have any.

[eFestivals]

I think this puts it quite well

http://www.football365.com/mediawatch/9009657/Mediawatch

I really don't think it does. It fails to recognise the angle that Barnes has always come from towards racism, takes the first para much too literally, and then fails to understand the rest of it within its whole context.

Barnes has never played the victim about the racist abuse he suffered thru his career. He's been able to recognise that he has had a privileged existence firstly via his family and then via his 'trade'.

So he doesn't much care if a privileged person is getting abused, because it still doesn't put them anywhere near the same place as a 'normal' person.

And when that privileged person kicks off big time about getting that abuse but is nowhere to be seen on everyday issues, it's hard to have much sympathy for them.

For a parallel just consider, say, Angela Merkel being very pissed off when she finds out her phone is bugged but didn't have a word to say when it was revealed that the NSA were hoovering-up German citizen's net data like there's no tomorrow, or the current fuss about Andrew Mitchell and 'plebgate' - where he's outraged to find out that the old bill do whatever they want to rather than following the law or what is right and proper, and half a million quid gets spunked on a nothing while tens of thousands of people (if not hundreds of thousands or even millions) are all saying "I know that already, but where the investigation when I complained about them stitching me up?"

Barnes has a perspective that's far too real for most people to deal with, because otherwise they have to acknowledge their own failings.

[lost]

_{http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/04/racist-abuse-yaya-toure-john-barnes}

So, is John Barnes saying that if you're rich, you should stop caring if people are racist to you? Or that only some forms of racism are ok to have a go at?

Not sure what his point is exactly.

[thetime]

Ashley young embarrassing.

[pink_triangle]

One of Palace's issues IMO is not just a lack of talent compared to their premier league rivals, it's that they've changed too many faces too quickly. Instead of adding to the squad they had, they've basically tried to buy a whole new one. They've brought something like 15 players in and let 10 go. They're a new team, adapting to a new league.

[kaosmark2]

City impressive going forward again. So many goals in that team and Jovetic has barely played yet! Still vulnerable defensively though, can't see them getting the victory at Bayern needed to top the group, which I think this year looks like it'll be more important than in recent years: Only Arsenal/Dortmund/Napoli and Milan in terms of top teams that look likely to be in the second pot.

Man U looking like they're going for draws away and wins at home in the tournament. Workable tactic, particularly in a weak group, but they're going to need to get away goals in the knockout stages.

Surprising about Real and PSG dropping points, but they're both pretty much through with top spot anyway. Juventus looking like draw specialists right now, surely they need at least one win to get through? Conceivably if they draw their last 2 matches and Real win theirs they could get 2nd without a single victory...

[eFestivals]

Ashley Young