Arcade Fire

[Hugh Jass II]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

That came through as a main news alert so pressure will clearly mount 

First few gigs will be rough and then it will calm down as the news cycle moves on.

[scatteredscreens]

22 minutes ago, Hugh Jass II said:

First few gigs will be rough and then it will calm down as the news cycle moves on.

I think at this point it'll be a discontent within the touring party/band that'll push the tour to be cancelled. Think you're right though that they'll wait until the last possible opportunity to cancel, probably because they're thinking of the $$$$$

[moogster]

Availabilify of second hand tickets around here has strongly increased in the past couple of days. Lots of people who all of a sudden "can't make it on that day anymore"

[Hugh Jass II]

27 minutes ago, scatteredscreens said:

I think at this point it'll be a discontent within the touring party/band that'll push the tour to be cancelled. Think you're right though that they'll wait until the last possible opportunity to cancel, probably because they're thinking of the $$$$$

Obviously from a moral standpoint the right thing would be to cancel. However when there's potentially millions at stake then morals tend to take a backseat.

[benc]

OK i'm going to lose money on hotels and train tickets for thursday, but my perferece is the tour is canned and I get ticket money back.

 

Otherwise, currently thking (and still not made my mind up) I'll reluctantly go - perhaps by then there will be a protest or way to make feelings known

[Superscally]

I wonder how it would be taken if at the start of each show he came out and said something like this:

"I know most of you know of the recent reports and you can judge me how you see fit. I've been an awful human and hurt a lot of people around me. I've taken steps to change and hope to come out a better person. I'm so sorry to anyone I've hurt and don't want any applause for holding my hands up. I'm a musician and imperfect. If any good comes of this it's for you to learn to be a better person than me. Treat everyone with respect. Don't be a dick. I hope you stick with me and my band. If you don't, that's cool, I'm sorry I drove you away."

If I was Win, I'd do this, despite whatever PR man told me to do or not. I'd see it as some sort of confession and I reckon it would serve as a powerful motivator for self change. It might even make someone who is of the same cloth in the audience change their ways...

[chazwwe]

12 minutes ago, Superscally said:

I wonder how it would be taken if at the start of each show he came out and said something like this:

"I know most of you know of the recent reports and you can judge me how you see fit. I've been an awful human and hurt a lot of people around me. I've taken steps to change and hope to come out a better person. I'm so sorry to anyone I've hurt and don't want any applause for holding my hands up. I'm a musician and imperfect. If any good comes of this it's for you to learn to be a better person than me. Treat everyone with respect. Don't be a dick. I hope you stick with me and my band. If you don't, that's cool, I'm sorry I drove you away."

If I was Win, I'd do this, despite whatever PR man told me to do or not. I'd see it as some sort of confession and I reckon it would serve as a powerful motivator for self change. It might even make someone who is of the same cloth in the audience change their ways...

The issue is he's already denied it. I know we're talking on a different time. If he comes out and admits he's done some of the accusations then the people who accused him will have more grounds to take him to court. 

Its a lose/lose situation.

[henry bear]

Once he's been properly advised he'll probably do a typical celeb on the naughty-step tactic - disassociate himself from his actions; "that person disgusts me and isn't the real me. It was a cry for help, I'm a victim too etc"

[chazwwe]

1 minute ago, henry bear said:

Once he's been properly advised he'll probably do a typical celeb on the naughty-step tactic - disassociate himself from his actions; "that person disgusts me and isn't the real me. It was a cry for help, I'm a victim too etc"

'I'm just really happy I have the support of my wife, my family and my band and I hope I can regain the trust of my fans, who without them I'd be nothing'. 

[jannybruck]

He doesn't need to address it live. He's playing arenas, he can be as disconnected with the audience as he likes, it's not like he's having to play to 50 people in Camden Dingwalls. This is the whole reason they're riding out the tour: any small pockets of discontent or grumbling in the audience will easily be drowned out by the thousands and thousands of other people who're there to see one of their favourite bands, dance to Wake Up or whatever and are not bothered at all in all that.

The level of privilege awarded to you once you're playing enormo-spaces is quite something. They can come on, do a show, collect the cheque and fuck off to the next city. Unless there's considerable, noisy protests at the shows somehow – which is unlikely – then they'll easily finish these EU dates.

[Superscally]

9 hours ago, chazwwe said:

The issue is he's already denied it. I know we're talking on a different time. If he comes out and admits he's done some of the accusations then the people who accused him will have more grounds to take him to court. 

Its a lose/lose situation.

He hasn't denied everything. He's denied some of it. God knows what's true. He may be right and justified in denying what he has and admitting being a grotbag. God knows what he BELIEVES is true, but that kind of statement could mean something good comes out of it.  Was more of a hypothetical on my part as apart from the people who've suffered and for this kind of shit to be confined to history I'm not wishing anything in particular. In a group chat today a female pal who's been on the rough end of a similar thing said this, after we dug into it and similar sentiments were shared:

"Interesting conversations- it’s conversations like this that are far more productive and useful to progress than yelling ‘CANCEL THEM’ every time someone like WIn is outed as having behaved like a c**t"

I'm down with this.

 

[tigger123]

 

[incident]

12 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

 

TBH, a poor turnout will be embarrassing for the band, but in itself won't stop the tour - even if people choose not to turn up the tickets are already paid for. If they cancelled they'd have to refund everyone - including those that currently have no intention of using their tickets.

[Dark Star]

1 minute ago, incident said:

TBH, a poor turnout will be embarrassing for the band, but in itself won't stop the tour - even if people choose not to turn up the tickets are already paid for. If they cancelled they'd have to refund everyone - including those that currently have no intention of using their tickets.

And we already knew that a lot of the dates had slow sales, so this could be that rather than anything else. Looks like the back corner of an arena, which you'd expect ot be the last to go. 

[Brownie30]

39 minutes ago, Dark Star said:

And we already knew that a lot of the dates had slow sales, so this could be that rather than anything else. Looks like the back corner of an arena, which you'd expect ot be the last to go. 

 

Definitely not just the back corner!

[zzzfest]

I was there (Birmingham). Lower tier, left side. It was eighty percent full, if not a full house. Definitely not a poor sale. I feel John Authers deliberately pinpointing poorly attended sections, mainly the back areas, making a false impression.

Musically and performance-wise, Arcade Fire were brilliant as ever. And the crowd was nothing short of enthusiastic.

Mixed feelings notwithstanding, I don’t regret attending the show.

[Superscally]

7 hours ago, zzzfest said:

I was there (Birmingham). Lower tier, left side. It was eighty percent full, if not a full house. Definitely not a poor sale. I feel John Authers deliberately pinpointing poorly attended sections, mainly the back areas, making a false impression.

Musically and performance-wise, Arcade Fire were brilliant as ever. And the crowd was nothing short of enthusiastic.

Mixed feelings notwithstanding, I don’t regret attending the show.

My mates said similar. They also said that outside standing tickets were being exchanged for the princely sum of...

ZERO POUNDS.

Biggest song of the night - Bittersweet Symphony 

"I can change, I can change..."

This is 20 mins before band due on.

[mikegday]

I’ll be attending Manchester tonight, for Regine if nothing else. I’ve read the pitchfork statements, he fucked up and clearly abused his power imbalance but (unpopular opinion incoming), I don’t think the allegations are as damaging as they’re being made out. I dare say unfortunately you’d probably find this with many celebs, using their wealth and status to get what they want. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not right but in every walk of life power balances are exploited. He needs to address his behaviour, but should this be the end of him and his music? Not in my opinion

[tigger123]

1 hour ago, mikegday said:

I’ll be attending Manchester tonight, for Regine if nothing else. I’ve read the pitchfork statements, he fucked up and clearly abused his power imbalance but (unpopular opinion incoming), I don’t think the allegations are as damaging as they’re being made out. I dare say unfortunately you’d probably find this with many celebs, using their wealth and status to get what they want. Don’t get me wrong, it’s not right but in every walk of life power balances are exploited. He needs to address his behaviour, but should this be the end of him and his music? Not in my opinion

If sexual assault isn’t it, where would you draw the line as to what he would need to have done for you to think it should be the end of him?

[bobsacamano]

5 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

If sexual assault isn’t it, where would you draw the line as to what he would need to have done for you to think it should be the end of him?

For myself if someone has been convicted of sexual assault then I wouldn't go. However convicted means convicted by trial, or admission by the culprit as I stand by one of the bedrocks of any true system of justice and that's innocent until proven guilty. I pay no heed whatsoever to mob rule and the pitchfork waving inclined. Those people are usually as unpleasant as the people they bay against.

Now I will allow myself to make my own personal judgement in cases where allegations are open such as this one. My own personal judgement has led me not to go for a last minute ticket however I would make no judgement whatsoever on anybody who does decide to go as I don't believe my own personal judgement is in any way superior to anyone elses, just different. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong and in many cases it takes years for us to find out.

[charlierc]

10 hours ago, Brownie30 said:

 

Definitely not just the back corner!

 

1 hour ago, Superscally said:

My mates said similar. They also said that outside standing tickets were being exchanged for the princely sum of...

ZERO POUNDS.

Biggest song of the night - Bittersweet Symphony 

"I can change, I can change..."

This is 20 mins before band due on.

I've seen the back corners at arena gigs with a low amount of people in before (Biffy Clyro in Birmingham in 2013 comes to mind - rammed standing but really low take-up on seats, especially at the back) but these two angles look much less full to bursting. It looks as though more came in as the band made their belated entrance, but it seems still like a downgrade even on the full-ish crowds I saw from vids (and indeed the one I attended) in 2018.

[chazwwe]

Its not surprising it looks sparse before the band comes on, the tour didn't sell amazingly anyway, there's been reports of people giving out tickets out the front/more selling online and then you have the fact there's no support act to stand and watch so there's no point in getting to the venue until a little while before the band goes on, unless you want the front 5-10 rows. 

[mikegday]

50 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

If sexual assault isn’t it, where would you draw the line as to what he would need to have done for you to think it should be the end of him?

rape, underage, domestic violence etc.

This seems to be pretty nuanced; can power/age difference really result in true consent? 

Do you take into account things like one of the girls attended their gig on guest list after the incident?

I feel like I need to be careful here because I know that the consensus isn’t with me, but IMO people know the situations they are getting themselves into. 

He clearly has fucked up, he clearly has abused his status and influence - but what I’m saying is that’s rife throughout the whole of society, kidding ourselves  if we think otherwise & we’re the girls not in some way also speaking to him because of who he is? 

[chuckles07]

We have tickets for tonight at Manchester, for me and Mrs C. I have been reading comments on here and elsewhere and have felt very conflicted about whether to go. Is an accusation that is, partly, denied the right basis to decide not to go? We have discussed it and have decided not to go. Our view is that although Wins behaviour might not be seen as illegal (which is what some people are using as the determinant) it is not acceptable. If someone behaved like that (carrying out non consensual actions - the girls might have got themselves into the situations but reached the point where they wanted it to stop) to my daughters, wife, sister, female friends I would be furious. And being cancelled would not come close to what I would want to do.  Just because I don’t know the girls making the accusations personally does not change this. Also Mrs C’s opinion was insightful for me when I was making the point about going to the gig to support Regine and the band. Her immediate comment was they may well be complicit. Just because there are some females in the band doesn’t mean they can’t be involved (a la Ghislaine Maxwell……). All in all it’s so sad, and as has been said, everyone has the right to make their own call. 

[mikegday]

7 minutes ago, chuckles07 said:

We have tickets for tonight at Manchester, for me and Mrs C. I have been reading comments on here and elsewhere and have felt very conflicted about whether to go. Is an accusation that is, partly, denied the right basis to decide not to go? We have discussed it and have decided not to go. Our view is that although Wins behaviour might not be seen as illegal (which is what some people are using as the determinant) it is not acceptable. If someone behaved like that (carrying out non consensual actions - the girls might have got themselves into the situations but reached the point where they wanted it to stop) to my daughters, wife, sister, female friends I would be furious. And being cancelled would not come close to what I would want to do.  Just because I don’t know the girls making the accusations personally does not change this. Also Mrs C’s opinion was insightful for me when I was making the point about going to the gig to support Regine and the band. Her immediate comment was they may well be complicit. Just because there are some females in the band doesn’t mean they can’t be involved (a la Ghislaine Maxwell……). All in all it’s so sad, and as has been said, everyone has the right to make their own call. 

But we’re not talking Epstein here.

We’re talking adults messaging on instagram, meeting him in restaurants, attending their gigs. 

this is not underage trafficking. I know you were making a point about the complicit aspect, but its important not to conflate the two.