WE LIVE ON AN ISLAND

[guypjfreak]

BUT WE DONT BUILD BOATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats all

[mrtourette]

It's OK, we have aeroplanes and the tunnel.

[Paul ™]

The Scottish build them.. not alls lost ;-)

[mrtourette]

Devolution delayed until completion.

[guypjfreak]

It's OK, we have aeroplanes and the tunnel.

[dan8k]

Portsmouth here, live over the road from the dockyard gates. Saw it on bbc news at 9pm last night, went there for the 10 o' clock news with my son, just to watch the news 'live'

We were the only people there, except for Nick Robinson, a cameraman, a satellite van with 2 people in it and a dirty old 1999 reg mercedes vito with 2 people in it that Nick sent off for fish and chips. Nick stared into the camera for 30 minutes straight, before having a 2 minute slot, then looked mightyly pissed off and went off to london in said old vito 3 seater van sharing with 2 other nobodies.

True story.

News is actually more boring in real life, and very much unglamourous. FACT.

[eFestivals]

The Scottish build them.. not alls lost ;-)

it depends which way you vote for whether it's lost.

The Yes campaign is exploiting that fact for all it's worth - as well as claiming it won't happen - and yet the facts of history will correct the thinking of any quarter-decent mind on that.

I don't much care either way which way Scotland chooses, but I wish someone would shoot some of the ignorant lying arseholes that are fronting the yes campaign. Trying to get a decision on the basis of lies is serving no one.

(PS: yes, I know there's lies the other way too, and they're no less abhorrent).

[t8yman]

I do happen to care which way the vote goes, I'd like to see Scotland staying as it is. My wife is scottish, we spend a lot of time there. Its a fantastic country, with fantastic people and very very few of the people I have met are anti English. Many of whoms' only problem with "The English" is based on our football coverage, and the fact that we bleat on about 1966 all the time.

But I genuinely don't think Scotland could be self sufficient. Unless I am missing a rather large point, they would have to set up their own border agency, post office, health service, police service, social security service, schools system etc etc etc. North Sea Oil isnt going to fund all that, and I'm fairly sure free prescriptions and free university would be the first to go. My father in law didnt even know that we (in england) pay for our prescriptions. I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise, but a country with the geographical size it is, and the relatively tiny population it has - is going to struggle to cope.

oops, I've gone way off topic.

anyway - shipbuilding, It was inevitable.

Edited November 8, 2013 by t8yman

[eFestivals]

I do happen to care which way the vote goes, I'd like to see Scotland staying as it is.

from all practical points of view, independence seems daft.

But it's their choice to make, and given that Scotland doesn't vote tory but gets tory govts imposed on it for over 50% of the time I can understand why it gets pissed off being ruled from England.

But there's a lot of bullshit coming from the likes of Salmond - such as the promise of having your cake and eating it over the contract to build these new ships. The Westminister govt hasn't been building its warships outside of what is controlled by Westminster for hundreds of years, and it's not likely to go changing that to placate some (what would then be) foreigners and against what would be (post-independence) the wishes of its own constituents.

An independent Scotland isn't going to get both the good stuff it has a right to as well as the good stuff it has no right to ('English' stuff). There's plenty of things it'll lose with as well as stuff it will gain with, but to pretend it's always win-win is a massive lie.

[PastCaring]

BUT WE DONT BUILD BOATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats all

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I could point you in the direction of a number of BOAT builders - cos we were definitely still building narrowboats last time I checked - however, how many ships we currently build is another matter

[gary1979666]

from all practical points of view, independence seems daft.

But it's their choice to make, and given that Scotland doesn't vote tory but gets tory govts imposed on it for over 50% of the time I can understand why it gets pissed off being ruled from England.

But there's a lot of bullshit coming from the likes of Salmond - such as the promise of having your cake and eating it over the contract to build these new ships. The Westminister govt hasn't been building its warships outside of what is controlled by Westminster for hundreds of years, and it's not likely to go changing that to placate some (what would then be) foreigners and against what would be (post-independence) the wishes of its own constituents.

An independent Scotland isn't going to get both the good stuff it has a right to as well as the good stuff it has no right to ('English' stuff). There's plenty of things it'll lose with as well as stuff it will gain with, but to pretend it's always win-win is a massive lie.

[guypjfreak]

I agree. There's a number of UK based boat builders here, which is not an extensive list, I'm sure;

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?287948-List-of-British-yachtbuilders

[eFestivals]

i just find it amusing that we might have to buy our war ships from Germany

TBH, that's probably more likely than an independent Scotland.

[5co77ie]

BUT WE DONT BUILD BOATS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thats all

[guypjfreak]

Better tell that to A&P Falmouth - looked like they were building a boat last weekend when i was there

[Alcatraz]

My grandad was an apprentice at the Portsmouth Dockyard School and ended up taking his talents into electrical engineering as opposed to ship building. So I guess I would blame him partly

[guypjfreak]

My grandad was an apprentice at the Portsmouth Dockyard School and ended up taking his talents into electrical engineering as opposed to ship building. So I guess I would blame him partly

[viberunner]

I don't much care either way which way Scotland chooses, but I wish someone would shoot some of the ignorant lying arseholes that are fronting the yes campaign. Trying to get a decision on the basis of lies is serving no one.

[eFestivals]

Which lie or lies specifically?

I'll go for an easy one, that just about sums up the lot of it.

"Project Fear", when those that so love the phrase to try to blacken the No campaign aren't shy of using their own fear-raising words in support of 'Yes'.

[viberunner]

I'll go for an easy one, that just about sums up the lot of it. "Project Fear", when those that so love the phrase to try to blacken the No campaign aren't shy of using their own fear-raising words in support of 'Yes'.

[eFestivals]

Sorry, I thought you were about to give a specific example of a lie.

Now you've shifted to saying they're just invoking fear. Again, without an example, though in this case examples would abound as the English have such a heavy Tory vote leading to the likes of attacks on the disabled, those on housing benefit, etc.

If you are actually able to give an example of a lie, instead of merely asserting so, feel free...

"If you don't vote yes, England will exact revenge for having the vote in the first place, and then you'll be far worse off than ever".

Specific enough for you?

This can be heard on a regular basis from the same people who say that the 'no' campaign only has scare tactics to try and persuade people to stay in the union - their own scare tactic.

If you've never heard that you've not been listening to the debate.

But if you want another, the 'yes' campiagn's words about the EU. While those words might turn out to be how things pan out there's absolutely no way of being sure that it will, and the only basis to make to a reasoned decision is to work on the basis that the EU's clearly stated rules will apply 100%.

Or the claims that Scotland will still build those ships if they're independent. Again, there's rules that say Scotland cannot simply be given the contract (not just one set of rules but two of them).

I'm happy for Scotland to vote for independence if that's what it wants to do, but to make that decision on the basis of false information (by either side) would be the wrong thing to do.