alt fest 2014

[eFestivals]

Such a weird holding statement which.says absolutely nothing. Think they'd have been better just saying it's off. We will give more info as soon as we can

I'm guessing it's due to one of two different possibilities...

1. they need the time to be able to find out what the actual position of everything is, so that they're able to say if there'll be refunds, and how much, etc.

2. on the basis that smaller bands don't appear to have been contacted yet, they're attempting to pull together a much smaller and cheaper event so that something can be salvaged.

I've no idea what structure there was at an organisational level, but as something which appears to have been done by non-pros and pulled together via social media, it's perhaps something chaotic - and perhaps one or more of those involved have walked away, including walking away with knowledge that is needed to be able to make a statement on where things stand now.

[Paul ™]

We did have the contract for this but pulled out for good reason.. looked suspect imo.

[Dave The Hedgehog]

I think they should just bite the bullet and talk about the possibility of a refund today rather than wait until Monday. Irrespective of whether or not they can hold a much smaller festival, find an alternative venue (because even Boughton House doesn't list Alt Fest any more). I was looking this morning at the Facebook page and there was a guy from Puerto Rico who wanted to see Marilyn Manson - if Manson's pulled out, does this guy really want to fly from Puerto Rico to spend a few days in a field with a few thousand other goths watching "Palm Reader"? Somebody else there from Norway I saw, another few people from Australia, Ireland, Germany... these are people who need to get in touch with flight companies to get a refund lest they face the risk of losing hundreds, if they can get it back at all.

It's such a shit thing to be told the festival has been cancelled 2 weeks before it's supposed to start but to make a statement like that and tell people they need to wait a bit longer - it leaves a bad taste in the mouth even if the festival is still on. I think they should just cancel the fucker and tell everybody on the line-up, then tell the people who paid for the tickets and offer a full refund. as well as their sincerest apologies without any finger pointing.

[eFestivals]

...and offer a full refund.

That's probably the nub. It's quite possible they've got no money with which to offer anyone anything.

The 'big' ticket agents won't as standard hand over the money to an event until the event has taken place. This ensures they can refund their customers if it doesn't take place.

Smaller agents often get the sales contract by agreeing to hand over some of the money - which of course means they then don't have the funds to make refunds.

I know Alt-Fest used a smaller agent, and i know there's the suggestion that agent still has the money. But whether that's actually case, we've yet to find out.

[rawaudioinput]

What will even occur if that's the case?

[jump]

What will even occur if that's the case?

Looks like people will probably have to go to a small claims court to get their money back or accept the new version of the fest.

[jump]

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/14/140801g.shtml

I can see the general camp gear being fine but wasn't most of the traders going to be selling goth/metal crap, I can't see that being a match for V.

[eFestivals]

http://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/14/140801g.shtml

I can see the general camp gear being fine but wasn't most of the traders going to be selling goth/metal crap, I can't see that being a match for V.

the offers there if any want to take it up. I'm guessing that any regular trader who's lost their pitch this late in the day would normally have difficulty finding somewhere else that was worthwhile doing.

The markets manager got in touch with us, asking if we would put the offer out there for him, and it seemed the helpful thing to do.

Edited August 1, 2014 by eFestivals

[jump]

the offers there if any want to take it up. I'm guessing that any regular trader who's lost their pitch this late in the day would normally have difficulty finding somewhere else that was worthwhile doing.

The markets manager got in touch with us, asking if we would put the offer out there for him, and it seemed the helpful thing to do.

Yeah it's a nice offer by them, I just found the idea of V (possibly) being loaded up with goth/metal merch weird.

[atomised]

Strange that the organisers are still saying that no traders or bands have received a statement confirming its cancelled yet

[atomised]

officially cancelled then, details up on facebook apparently, sounds like the finances beat them in the end

[Gnomicide]

Damn shame this, I quite fancied it but lacked the funds/time off/final shreds of festival based good will from the Mrs.

From what I'd read, the organisers did have good intentions but seemed to lack the nouse to get it over the line.

[atomised]

Think you've got it spot on Gnomicide. I really feel for them, sure they will be smarting from all the accusations of scam or con being levelled at them. Potentially this has left them facing financial ruin

[Ringo_Spar]

Alt-Fest Limited is facing financial ruin - that's the £2 that the prime movers put in and the £60k that the kickstarter backers put in...

Whilst Dom & Missy are by no means in for an easy ride, they did at least have the good sense to separate the company's liabilities from their personal wealth. They will be barred from being company directors for up to 6 years and their days of promoting anything are well and truly over.

Whilst not a scam, the level of naivety is truly astounding. I see lots of people saying they are nice people, and that's probably true, the business - particularly at the level they were foolishly trying to operate - isn't necessarily a place for nice people!

Another thing is that contractors and artists may well be venting anger and frustration, but they don't necessarily get out of the trail of blame. Some of them must have seen this eventuality arising from the outset - huge ambitions, amateur first time festival organisers/promoters; they didn't do their own homework, but took the risk and the contracts anyway.

[atomised]

The naivety that jumps out at me from.the statement they've made is the bit that suggests they believed if the likes of Marilyn Manson and the cult could sell out 5000 capacity venues those same 5000 people would shell out for festival tickets on the back of that act

[justanothername]

Wasn't the daily capacity 50,000? If so 7,500 weekend tickets ain't a lot at all and they needed to sell another 3,000 just to break even so they were no where near getting the festival to go ahead. No one seemed to have a clue about what they were doing. They started with good intentions as a festival for the fans which is run by fans (I'm not sure on previous experience Missy and Dom had) but it just got too ambitious. Half of the things they were going to do weren't needed. Who goes to festival because of a petting zoo, if I want a to take a child to a petting zoo I'd take them to a petting zoo. Anyway most of what I have said has been said already

[atomised]

The site capacity is 50000. They were aiming for between 10000 and 20000 in year one and the event was licensed accordingly as far as I know.

[Ringo_Spar]

Moreover, that if 5,000 people go to see The Cult and 5,000 people go to see Marilyn Manson, it seems they infer that would equate to 10,000 ticket sales! Doh!

I'm pretty sure that they stated their break even was at 20,000. Now they say they've sold 7,500 and would have broken even with another 3,000. My reckoning is that would still have left them £300,000 - £400,000 short - which is the money they were hunting about for from investors or deferring payments to the contractors until they started selling tickets for 2015 (a sure fire complete disaster of affairs).

Selling 3,000 more tickets. In TWO WEEKS!!! It took them nearly 2 years to sell the first 7,500.

[smogo]

Tickets were too cheap. If they were twice as expensive, it would've looked more legitimate and people wouldn't have felt that buying a ticket was a lottery.

[kipper64]

And they stated just a few days ago they were " a few hundred tickets" from selling out too...obviously a way to try and generate last minute sales but when you need to sell 50% of your tickets you sold in a few years in a few days at a now higher price, that old tactic was clearly NOT going to work. Desperation, I guess.

I do feel bad for them, going into liquidation and having to cancel - even if it was down to a series of poor decisions - I'm sure their hearts were in the right place overall, but the statement seems to be a tad contradictory to what seems to have gone on overall, and seems to be a lot of blameshifting, at no point have they really held their hands up and said, we made mistakes/got some things wrong, instead it's people didn't buy tickets, contractors expected to get paid, a big investor dropped out last minute (even though bands have been saying some of the issues were ongoing for a few months now and they were looking for £400,000 online from investors up until today).

[eFestivals]

officially cancelled then, details up on facebook apparently, sounds like the finances beat them in the end

I'd say it was more likely that their over-ambition beat them. If the numbers they quote are truthful, it sounds like it might have worked without the many unneeded extras which have probably contributed almost nothing towards the tickets sold.

As the saying goes, you need to learn to walk before you can run.

It's a shame but I can't say I'm too suprised. In the in 15 years I've been sat here I've seen countless pitches for dreamed-of mega-events by amateurs at festivals plus far too many real attempts at making them happen, and sometimes by people who I've thought really should know better.

In most of what I see/hear of it's been agents who have been culperble in helping start that process, by suggesting back to big dreamers that they really will be able to book a particular massive act - when the reality has really been there's not a chance in hell, and at best the 'dreamer' is being used as a way to jack up the prices that the normal big operators will pay. But there doesn't seem to have been any of that here, where it sounds like they ended up with bigger acts than they initially thought they'd get access to.

So.... until the next time (and there will be a next time) ....

[Ringo_Spar]

Neil - for sure there will be a next time!!! We've seen it happen every couple of years. I do think, like you, there were people who could/should have reigned the organisers' ambition in, but didn't, and they must shoulder some of the blame here - but won't.

Kipper - the two chief organisers investment into "Alt-Fest Ltd." was.......

£2

The company's insolvency isn't going to wipe them out, though obviously it's not going to be exactly pleasant for them, and their reputation is wrecked to the extent that, fortunately for them, they'll never be able to promote anything again.

Meanwhile those same two chief organisers have taken a salary from Alt-Fest Ltd., as it's directors, of......

a sum higher than the national average wage

Whilst the majority of investors have kissed goodbye to most, if not all, of the money they put in.

Edited August 2, 2014 by LevellerRich

[eFestivals]

Meanwhile those same two chief organisers have taken a salary from Alt-Fest Ltd., as it's directors, of......

a sum higher than the national average wage

While I accept they've got to live, that certainly suggests living it up.

Living it up is what successful promoters do, not hopeful promoters.

[eFestivals]

And actually ....

I've been running efestivals for 15 years. In all of that time, the best I've got to is around 3/4 of the national average wage (I've certainly never reached it), and I doubt I've ever earned even the national minimum wage as an hourly rate.

I could have pumped more money my way by going at things ion a different manner, but if I did that would ultimately mean that I'd be doing a lesser job with what I try to do here, and trying to do a good job has always been of higher priority than me getting paid better.

To dive straight in and grant yourself a substantial wage before the enterprise is even up and running does, to me, say something about what was the premier priority.

[PastCaring]

I also do feel for them - sounds like they let themselves get carried away, and lost touch with the "possible", somewhere along the line. Maybe they should have started with something small, aimed at one of their niche markets?