Some news...

[Katster]

Barry I have said if there are reasons for caesarean its a totally different scenario. Stop putting words in mine and others mouths (fingers).

[Katster]

40 weeks, if you are talking about conception to due date.

[Katster]

Oh, and of course I am nervous. However, I cannot allow those nerves to consume my choices and to opt for a caesarean. Nobody should, that's all I'm saying.

[Katster]

You're not listening. There are lots of women requesting caesareans simply because they don't want to birth naturally. There was one in hospital when I was in with my BP and she ignored all of the advice given.

[bunique]

There is increasing evidence that passage through the birth canal is required for a healthy immune system, and many conditions are increasingly being linked to auto-immune disorders and poor gut health. It's really interesting stuff, and I think there is the potential for there to be a connection between rising CS rates and higher diagnosis of everything from allergies to ASD.

[feral chile]

There is no reason for any first time mum to be terrified. There is plenty of support available through the nhs and I have been constantly asked throughout my pregnancy if I have any concerns.

If someone had a rough time in previous deliveries this is taken into account but as each pregnancy even between the same man, woman and sex of baby is different, there is no reason to think that a previous bad experience will repeat itself.

I'm not looking down my nose at anybody.

As long as you're in a good hospital, they'll look after you fine. My first two were born in a superb hospital, now unfortunately closed, and my last two in a poor hospital, also now closed.

You seem pretty clued up on it all anyway, which helps enormously.

[bunique]

I think fear is an entirely valid reason to not want to give birth vaginally. I don't think the solution is to offer a CS.

[feral chile]

I think fear is an entirely valid reason to not want to give birth vaginally. I don't think the solution is to offer a CS.

I'd have thought it'd come down to weighing up the risks.

[bunique]

What risk? The first offer should be counselling from a specialist starting as early as possible

[Katster]

Thanks Bunique, that's what I was trying to say. If a woman is nervous to the extent of being "terrified" she should be given (and should try to accept) support and guidance, the first option should not be an unnessesary and potentially dangerous (for mum and baby) operation. Bunique also makes good points about the immunities etc which are picked up on the journey through the birth canal, if you choose caesarean, you choose to deny your child of these and other benefits.

[Katster]

As long as you're in a good hospital, they'll look after you fine. My first two were born in a superb hospital, now unfortunately closed, and my last two in a poor hospital, also now closed.

You seem pretty clued up on it all anyway, which helps enormously.

I have put a hell of a lot of effort into making sure I am as informed as possible since even before that line turned pink. It has been mine (and Dan's) journey and whilst I understand other people do things differently, for me bringing life into this world was never something I was going to do lightly. Whilst I may sound confident, I'm as scared as any other first time mum I'm sure, I dunno, like everything else it depends on your basis for comparison. Billions of women have given birth successfully, but its a one (possibly two) off occasion for me personally.

[feral chile]

Thanks Bunique, that's what I was trying to say. If a woman is nervous to the extent of being "terrified" she should be given (and should try to accept) support and guidance, the first option should not be an unnessesary and potentially dangerous (for mum and baby) operation. Bunique also makes good points about the immunities etc which are picked up on the journey through the birth canal, if you choose caesarean, you choose to deny your child of these and other benefits.

Yes, I was thinking of women with a legitimate reason to fear a natural birth, a history of foetal distress for example, not fear of the unknown, which all of us share, I'd have thought

[Katster]

Yes, I was thinking of women with a legitimate reason to fear a natural birth, a history of foetal distress for example, not fear of the unknown, which all of us share, I'd have thought

Exactly. Although even fear of the unknown I know can be enough for a lot of women to want/prefer the idea of a caesarean. I wasn't looking down my nose at those women, but I don't agree that caesarean is the only, or most sensible option. I'm a very nervous person and I am lucky to have Dan and my family supporting me and good midwives, if I didn't have that support I could have asked for (and was offered anyway) lots of help and support from professionals rather than suffering in silence and opting for what actually should be considered a far more terrifying experience than a natural birth.

[midnight]

Yes, that. I certainly consider major abdominal surgery (which is what a c-section is, no bones about it) to be traumatic, there may be lots of good reasons why a woman should have one, but why anyone believes (or is being told) that it is the "easy option" is beyond me. It isn't easy, and I certainly felt like death for several days afterwards, despite being given all sorts of strong pain killers (even morphine), and despite the elation I felt over finally having my baby etc. And although it is a reasonably safe procedure in a decent hospital, the maternal mortality rate for a cesarean is higher than with a vaginal birth. Of course both are now very low in countries with good health care, so the differences are marginal, but still.

Anyway, I'd actually popped in here to post a link to a website that solved all my bf problems for me (and I had a few at the start): https://www.laleche.org.uk

Stumbled over it one day when I was researching why my baby's poo had turned green - ah the joys and memories! ;-)

[bunique]

Www.kellymom.com is an amazing breastfeeding resource too!!

[feral chile]

Well, I'm conflicted, because with hindsight, two of mine would have been better with a planned Caesarean, and two were fine with a natural birth.

We don't have the benefit of hindsight, however, so you'd have to assess the risks, based on your individual health situation.

[bunique]

I do find it interesting Barry that you're willing to put absolute faith in the medical profession when it comes to birth choices but questioned it so persistently in the Ashya King case! Women are told everyday they "can't" birth without intervention when with a supportive OB or midwife they could. I wouldn't criticise any woman who made a decision based on that advice, but I'll happily berate Consultants who give terrible advice!

[bunique]

It's very hard to make a choice when you are told by someone with Dr/Mr in front of their name that "you are not going to be able birth this baby yourself" - it takes some real stones to stand up in the face of that and ask them to reconsider their recommendation. There is often not a discussion, just a direction. It happened to me! Waters broke, was booked in for induction on the following Saturday without once being asked if I wanted to be induced (I didn't, and my birth plan explicitly stated so). Fortunately it wasn't an issue as I went into spontaneous labour that night, but others may have ended up with an induction they neither wanted nor needed.

[Katster]

I have neither berated nor demonised and I certainly haven't told any other womAn ever what she should or shouldn't do with her own child, stomach or vagina. Or anything else of hers for that matter.

[Katster]

There's a difference between questioning why someone would do something as opposed to telling them they shouldn't, Barry. But fair enough. We just bought a babasling, think they are quite controversial too are they not? Lol.

[Katster]

Moving on whilst not moving on, 'twas meant to be a joke. Chill dude.

[bunique]

As long as you observe some fairly basic guidelines (as you would with any baby equipment - pushchairs, bouncers etc) they're perfectly safe to sleep in, and a good quality sling will be comfortable for parent and baby.

Edited October 1, 2014 by bunique

[bunique]

3 months:

6 months maybe? On my back

And at almost 4! And 20 weeks pregnant!

[bunique]

Ugh, they're huge, sorry!

[bunique]

And she's not 20 weeks pregnant, in case anyone was wondering