Football 2014/15

[eFestivals]

It was prompted by Holt's piece - which in and of itself is all we've been talking about on here. He's just the first journo to compare United to Chelsea that I've seen.

LFC/Barca/Munich would strenuously argue that their clubs have "souls". Some essence, incorporeal spirit...

United of course up to recently also had this as part of their identity.

Nope, they didn't. They made a claim of it, a different thing.

(the same false claim is made by those other clubs you mention too, just to be clear).

A soul would be a constant thing, not something that evaporates as soon as the success on the pitch does.

[thetime]

Nal's a bit touchy bout the whole shindig. Painful transition for him.

Only a young lad though and only known united's successful period.

Understandable.

[Wooderson]

I do like Neil's take that the whole thing is predicated on success.

[zahidf]

What are ABU's that nal keeps going on about?

Anyone but United.

[Wooderson]

I can't understand why man utd have only lost there soul because of buying a few expensive players, man utd have always done that.

I would say man utd and Liverpool are in the same position, owned by Americans and spending big money to get success.

Has any of it to do with having a soul?

Chief it's not just me that's speculating. Traditions are being thrown out the window. Welbeck for all his faults was dispatched unceremoniously. Along with Clevvs he was part of the glorious future bequeathed you by the Dark Lord himself.

Was Fergie your "soul"?

[eFestivals]

I do like Neil's take that the whole thing is predicated on success.

I've been consistent with it over many years, and what i've said has proven to be right by the total abandonment of the claimed club principles over the last few months.

It's not taken any special insight to see that. All it's taken is memory of before that bullshit started to be spouted.

[thetime]

Chief it's not just me that's speculating. Traditions are being thrown out the window. Welbeck for all his faults was dispatched unceremoniously. Along with Clevvs he was part of the glorious future bequeathed you by the Dark Lord himself.

Was Fergie your "soul"?

Man utd existed before Fergie you know, or did United only get there soul when he arrived.

Man utd have always sold youth players, so it's a bit of a strange argument. Did United lose there soul selling best, Hughes, Whiteside. Beckham, butt etc etc?

What does a football clubs soul actually mean?

Edited September 3, 2014 by thetime

[Wooderson]

Only a young lad though and only known united's successful period.

Understandable.

He's a fan since the 80's.

[eFestivals]

Traditions are being thrown out the window.

They never existed as those "traditions" in the first place.

That's how come it was so easy to spot as bullshit by someone of my age who remembers pre-fergie and pre-bullshit.

[thetime]

He's a fan since the 80's.

Oh thought he was about 21..

[eFestivals]

What does a football clubs soul actually mean?

To me, it would be a set of immovable principles.

The best I can think of every having existed - tho thank fuck they're long gone - would be Rangers/Celtic only signing proddies/left-footers.

But just as Utd are considered to have now abandoned their "principles" in search of success, that's precisely what Rangers/Celtic did too. They only succeeded in sticking to those principles for as long as they did because of the parochial nature of Scottish footie until domestic leagues started to become more international during the 80s.

[thetime]

To me, it would be a set of immovable principles.

The best I can think of every having existed - tho thank fuck they're long gone - would be Rangers/Celtic only signing proddies/left-footers.

But just as Utd are considered to have now abandoned their "principles" in search of success, that's precisely what Rangers/Celtic did too. They only succeeded in sticking to those principles for as long as they did because of the parochial nature of Scottish footie until domestic leagues started to become more international during the 80s.

So only clubs with soul are the likes of athletico bilbao who only pick Basque players?

[eFestivals]

So only clubs with soul are the likes of athletico bilbao who only pick Basque players?

That sort of thing would certainly fit with the claims Utd used to make about their own claimed soul (but which have now been shown to be vacuous).

Personally I'd say it's always meaningless bollocks in all circumstances, outside of purely-amateur community clubs where it's the playing that counts and not the money or success.

Edited September 3, 2014 by eFestivals

[LondonTom]

West Ham use to have a soul apparently before Big Sam destroyed it in one swift movement, the "West Ham Way^TM"

Edited September 3, 2014 by LondonTom

[ThomThomDrum]

No professional club has a "soul". The concept is ridiculous really. Yeah some may have traditions, but that does not give them a soul and those traditions will or have been tested when success comes and goes. All professional clubs are striving for success and all successful clubs are "money first" entities for the most part, thus the striving to be such makes all clubs, in my opinion, soulless. Just because a club has struggled and not successful does not mean it has a "soul". They would all sell it (their "soul") in a heartbeat if they thought it would allow them to stick their flag atop the mountain.

[mrtourette]

What are ABU's that nal keeps going on about?

I could only think of the monkey form Aladdin.

[TheGayTent]

Sky and all seater stadia put a lot of tradition (good stuff) to bed.

[ThomThomDrum]

I meant what does ABU mean?

Anyone But United

[Andre91]

I thought he was on about City. As in Abu Dhabi.

[metallimuse]

Started with us Scots though,ABE...Anyone But England

[kaosmark2]

No professional club has a "soul". The concept is ridiculous really. Yeah some may have traditions, but that does not give them a soul and those traditions will or have been tested when success comes and goes. All professional clubs are striving for success and all successful clubs are "money first" entities for the most part, thus the striving to be such makes all clubs, in my opinion, soulless. Just because a club has struggled and not successful does not mean it has a "soul". They would all sell it (their "soul") in a heartbeat if they thought it would allow them to stick their flag atop the mountain.

This.

I'd argue big clubs COULD have "souls" 15 years or so ago. Maybe earlier than that.

Money and success are the most important thing to all clubs now. All of them. There are examples of nice traditions that happened until recentlyish (Barca having Unicef rather than a real sponsor until 3? years ago, the Bilbao/Basque thing mentioned earlier).

Most fans like to think there's something special about their club, hell in this thread which largely has intelligent conversations* there's been idiotic lines about "The (insert club) way". 15 months ago thetime was insisting that Man U would never considering ditching playing wingers and two strikers. People try and claim their club doesn't sign twats, or whatever to try and emphasise their club's superiority. In reality, virtually all big clubs are the same now and we just want to justify our partisanship.

*Except when Barry turns up

[Wooderson]

Not having that. United fans were proud of the difference between them and the oil teams.

[ThomThomDrum]

Not having that. United fans were proud of the difference between them and the oil teams.

They still are proud of that but it's a load of cack. All modern tiltes are bought. Even before Utd splashed big style this year in desperation to get back to the top they were buying titles. Utd noses were just bent out of shape when the oil money came along as they were a threat, being able to compete with Utds spending power. Some Utd fans thought/think they have some kind of moral high ground because their money comes from ripping off fans around the world as opposed to from philanthropic playboys looking for an expensive toy to play with, but that does not exist

[pink_triangle]

The premiership teams blackmailed the lower league to change the rules so they could steal their players on the cheap, the idea that any premiership side has a soul is inaccurate in my view.

[TheGayTent]

The premiership teams blackmailed the lower league to change the rules so they could steal their players on the cheap, the idea that any premiership side has a soul is inaccurate in my view.

Whilst true it's always gone on anyway. Just the same as it goes on in the lower leagues.