Kendrick Lamar

[Smeble]

5 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

I have zero problems enjoying Kendrick Lamar's art without saying racial slurs

But you’re  happy to listen to someone who Uses racial slurs ( amongst many other slurs)to make money, that’s an interesting view of things. 

[FatAmmy]

Just now, Smeble said:

But you’re  happy to listen to someone who Uses racial slurs ( amongst many other slurs)to make money, that’s an interesting view of things. 

Surely you can't be serious?

[Smeble]

2 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

It's incredible the absolute hysterics that inevitably occur when you tell a white person they can't have something

You seem to like bringing skin colour into things a lot. I thought skin colour doesn’t matter? Everyone has an agender, yours is peaking through

[Smeble]

Just now, FatAmmy said:

Surely you can't be serious?

What part of it do you think is a joke?

[FatAmmy]

They get to say that word. You don't. End of story. There's hundreds of years of oppression and marginalization and cultural bullshit backing that up. If you can't deal with that, you deserve every ounce of crap that gets thrown at you

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, Smeble said:

I thought skin colour doesn’t matter? 

Who's claiming that?

[Smeble]

1 minute ago, FatAmmy said:

They get to say that word. You don't. End of story. There's hundreds of years of oppression and marginalization and cultural bullshit backing that up. If you can't deal with that, you deserve every ounce of crap that gets thrown at you

They? You assume I’m not a ‘they’ whoever ‘they’ are. 

[Nicklord]

1 minute ago, FatAmmy said:

They get to say that word. You don't. End of story. There's hundreds of years of oppression and marginalization and cultural bullshit backing that up. If you can't deal with that, you deserve every ounce of crap that gets thrown at you

So I, as a Serbian, am allowed to call Turks "kebabs" cause they were ruining my country for 350-400 years till the 19th century? I don't think that's how it works 

[Smeble]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Who's claiming that?

Well I am for a start, it doesn’t matter to me what colour someone’s skin is, does it matter to you?

[CaledonianGonzo]

1 minute ago, Smeble said:

Well I am for a start, it doesn’t matter to me what colour someone’s skin is, does it matter to you?

In this context, and in the context of art that depicts the African American experience, absolutely.   Ignoring skin colour is to ignore the reality of racisim.

[Quark]

56 minutes ago, ghostdancer1 said:

there isn't really confusion I don't think.

Ok, call it a grey area then

3 hours ago, WS_Jack_III said:

The Punks

Yeah, it was never the punks' to reclaim. Like Neil said they were just about outrage.

The equivalent would be if Jewish groups had maybe taken to wearing yellow stars as a way to reclaim something that was used to stigmatise them, and then got reasonably miffed when it started turning up in fucking topshop on a tshirt.

[FatAmmy]

14 minutes ago, Nicklord said:

So I, as a Serbian, am allowed to call Turks "kebabs" cause they were ruining my country for 350-400 years till the 19th century? I don't think that's how it works 

I don't know, is kebab a comparably loaded term that was used as a vicious tool of oppression? If so, the oppressed group should probably be able to do whatever they damn well please with it

[CaledonianGonzo]

What did the Ottomans call the Serbs? That's probably more relevant.

[Winslow Leach]

44 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Who's claiming that?

The gammons mate, the gammons 

[WS_Jack_III]

3 hours ago, Quark said:

Ok, call it a grey area then

Yeah, it was never the punks' to reclaim. Like Neil said they were just about outrage.

Yeah I get that. I misused reclamation.

[Quark]

5 hours ago, WS_Jack_III said:

Yeah I get that. I misused reclamation.

What I like is the way i managed to write that without sounding at all patronising!

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, FatAmmy said:

A white person deservedly being made to feel slightly embarrassed and uncomfortable is a consequence I can live with

(Obviously it shouldn't go beyond that)

how about white people and black people having to explain the 'traditional' meaning to their children (so it's known it can't be said by whites and can be by blacks and why) which ensures the traditional meaning persists? 

Me, I'd have thought people wouldn't want anything of that associated with them when it doesn't have to be, and particularly when their own actions drive it. This is hardly an outrageous idea either, as it's the view that plenty of today's users parents and grandparents agree with.

The saddest part of this for me is that it was taken up at the point the world was finally changing for the better, so it really is a case of persisting - and growing - the word and its 'traditional' meaning.

But hey, I'm just an observer. It's not my choice or my consequence. I just think the world would be a better place without a conscious decision to persist the word and its meaning.

Edited May 24, 2018 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, FatAmmy said:

I don't know, is kebab a comparably loaded term that was used as a vicious tool of oppression? If so, the oppressed group should probably be able to do whatever they damn well please with it

well, they are.

And here we are as a consequence talking about the word and what it means because another life has been pointlessly denigrated as a result.

[eFestivals]

9 hours ago, FatAmmy said:

It's incredible the absolute hysterics that inevitably occur when you tell a white person they can't have something

not a soul here has argued that.

Neither has anyone argued that black people can't have it, either.

My angle is not about "allowed" or "can have", it's about the consequences of choices.

[FatAmmy]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

because another life has been pointlessly denigrated as a result.

Oh, that poor poor soul

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, FatAmmy said:

Oh, that poor poor soul

the same attitude might be taken in the opposite direction, but I suspect you'd be outraged if it were.

[FatAmmy]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the same attitude might be taken in the opposite direction, but I suspect you'd be outraged if it were.

Oh, please do explain what you mean by this post. I can't wait to hear more about the totally unfair double standard  ????

[eFestivals]

Just now, FatAmmy said:

Oh, please do explain what you mean by this post. I can't wait to hear more about the totally unfair double standard  ????

It *IS* a double standard. 

A double-standard with consequences onto real people, which you dismiss as a nothing, almost cheering it along.

One of the consequences I object to.

As I said above, it doesn't seem to move things to a better place than when the word was widely used by racists.

[FatAmmy]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

It *IS* a double standard. 

A double-standard with consequences onto real people, which you dismiss as a nothing, almost cheering it along.

One of the consequences I object to.

 As I said above, it doesn't seem to move things to a better place than when the word was widely used by racists.

You seem to be under the impression that the word isn't still widely used by racists, which may in small part explain why this "double standard" bothers you so much

It's literally the least inconvenient, most consequence free double-standard in the history of the universe. All you have to do is not say a word

Is it really that hard to just accept that the word has completely different connotations coming from someone with light skin?

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, FatAmmy said:

You seem to be under the impression that the word isn't still widely used by racists, which may in small part explain why this "double standard" bothers you so much

it's not commonly used in everyday language as it used to be. I'm old enough to remember when it used to be.

1 minute ago, FatAmmy said:

It's literally the least inconvenient, most consequence free double-standard in the history of the universe. All you have to do is not say a word

after being inducted into what the word means in its origin in order to understand what it means to know why it can't be said - and so persisting the word.

And that's just in the perfect privileged-use of it. 

 

1 minute ago, FatAmmy said:

Is it really that hard to just accept that the word has completely different connotations coming from someone with light skin?

Why do you think I don't accept that?

I'm pointing out that it's use in that way has unpleasant consequences that come attached to its use in that way. Not just to singalong girl, but in how the original meaning persists (and will do forever with that use).

You might choose to call my view old fashioned cos it's certainly gone out of fashion with younger people, but the view I have is not an exclusively white view.