starting a new festival

[panky]

ok, so i want to start a festival, i have looked into it but i am still in the research stages atm, i have a few questions though and i thought this would be the ideal place to ask

i have seen alot of places saying 'prepare for a loss' i see that, i understand that yes possibilities of a newly founded business would normally take a loss, but running through the cost of the tickets (£10) and the revenue id be getting from the bar which is obviously undetermined, i cant see me losing much if anything if all goes to plan? taking into account, stage, tenting, light, speakers, toilets, security, licencing promoting etc. im looking at between 500-1000 people turn out for a day event in dorset and i can easily see it making even?

next question... i didnt realise how hard it was to find bands to play? i have approached a few and have got a few that are up for it, but iv spoken to a few that iv never heard of, they are not exactly big names, that are wanting thousands of pounds just to play for an hour or so? is this right? i was thinking the starting festival id be mainly looking for up and coming and local bands so i would of thought they were mainly looking to make a name for themselves, but some of the prices are crazy!! iv seen in a few places, 'best way is to have contacts' but where exactly are you supposed to get contacts in the music industry? iv managed to get a few bands from my own friends and friends of friends but not to fill the hole day and thats the main thing im struggling on tbh with the whole festival idea

all advice welcome please need all the help i can get

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

ok, so i want to start a festival, i have looked into it but i am still in the research stages atm, i have a few questions though and i thought this would be the ideal place to ask

i have seen alot of places saying 'prepare for a loss' i see that, i understand that yes possibilities of a newly founded business would normally take a loss, but running through the cost of the tickets (£10) and the revenue id be getting from the bar which is obviously undetermined, i cant see me losing much if anything if all goes to plan? taking into account, stage, tenting, light, speakers, toilets, security, licencing promoting etc. im looking at between 500-1000 people turn out for a day event in dorset and i can easily see it making even?

next question... i didnt realise how hard it was to find bands to play? i have approached a few and have got a few that are up for it, but iv spoken to a few that iv never heard of, they are not exactly big names, that are wanting thousands of pounds just to play for an hour or so? is this right? i was thinking the starting festival id be mainly looking for up and coming and local bands so i would of thought they were mainly looking to make a name for themselves, but some of the prices are crazy!! iv seen in a few places, 'best way is to have contacts' but where exactly are you supposed to get contacts in the music industry? iv managed to get a few bands from my own friends and friends of friends but not to fill the hole day and thats the main thing im struggling on tbh with the whole festival idea

all advice welcome please need all the help i can get

I think you should also ask yourself 'what if 500 - 1000 people don't turn up? How much is all the infrastructure going to cost you? Can you afford to lose that sum of money if it does go wrong? If that kind of money can be gambled by you then I'd say 'what finer way to gamble' - at least you'll have better odds than any casino would ever give you. If that kind of gamble is simply putting all you've got on black or red, then I'd say - no I can't actually advise you at all, come to think of it. Good luck regardless.

[panky]

the actual promoting of the festival isnt my biggest worry, iv spoken to a couple of bands and they have a fair fan base themselves, along with social media and local promotions, getting 1,000 wont be too difficult in my opinion so the gamble in my eyes drops substantially

[grumpyhack]

A friend of mine who now runs a successful festival had to personally bank roll it to the tune of £90,000 every year for the first four years before breaking even. By year eight he's now just turning a profit.

[panky]

i dont quite understand unless your throwing a massive festival, i cant see my little 1 being quite that much? i reckon with everything sorted i could probably hold it with a budget of 10 grand...

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

i dont quite understand unless your throwing a massive festival, i cant see my little 1 being quite that much? i reckon with everything sorted i could probably hold it with a budget of 10 grand...

I'm not trying to knock you or deter you. Have you sought quotes for the venue, infrastructure to 'know' that it will come to the £10K mark? Are you dealing with facts or surmising? If it were all to go pear shaped, can you afford to lose £10K - if indeed that is the appropriate figure?

[panky]

no it is all just in the planning phase atm, hence why iv come on here seeking advice to hopefully help prevent it from going pear shaped

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

no it is all just in the planning phase atm, hence why iv come on here seeking advice to hopefully help prevent it from going pear shaped

Which is why I have answered accordingly. That's why I keep emphasising whether you can honestly say 'I can afford that if it proves to be a loss'. I don't doubt the positives of what you say, I would just argue that you need to keep in mind that there may be negative factors at play.

That said, I'd say, with the right promotion it would be easy to get 500 -1000 people to pay £10 for a one off experience / festival. I'd still be wanting to actually know what the infrastructure is going to cost while at the preliminary stage. Get quotes, not estimates. Good luck.

[t8yman]

The level of naivety in your post would lead me to advise you to forget this. If it was possible to put on a festival for 10k - I would do one every year.

10 grand will buy you fuck all these days.

if you book 10 bands, they will bring maybe 20 paying fans each, and a load of family and friends on their guest list (free) so you will have a crowd of about 400 at this stage, half of whom haven't paid.

and those bands are gonna want an absolute minimum of £500 - £1000 to turn up, bringing 4 or 5 members with all of their instruments, sound man, lighting man etc isnt free, they want to get paid.

Edited October 8, 2014 by t8yman

[atomised]

Couldn't have put it better t8yman I've had friendstry to put on live events, bands would say they'd bring a certain amount of people. Most of them would turn up with half that number who would inevitably get in free and spend the time drinking the bands rider

[eFestivals]

the actual promoting of the festival isnt my biggest worry, iv spoken to a couple of bands and they have a fair fan base themselves, along with social media and local promotions, getting 1,000 wont be too difficult in my opinion so the gamble in my eyes drops substantially

If it was that easy, every new festival would be a success.

Regarding the bands, if they say they can bring an audience, then surely they'd be happy to have tickets to sell to their audience instead of money? You could structure the deal so they stand to make more via that than they would if paid cash, and it removes some of the risk from you. This is something that a few festies do, especially with acts that are only 'locally famous'.

If bands don't wish to go with a deal like that then treat the claims of the bands about their popularity with caution.

The real point is tho that even well-established venue promoters with great contacts fail at putting on a successful festival, because it's not as easy to be successful as you're believing. If you go into it thinking it will be that easy that's only likely to make your failure all the bigger.

It's not impossible to create a successful festival, but ultimately (until it gets well-established) it probably has as much to do with luck than planning. For example, if it rains you can probably expect only half the audience that you might otherwise have had, and there's nothing you can do to control the weather.

[eFestivals]

That said, I'd say, with the right promotion it would be easy to get 500 -1000 people to pay £10 for a one off experience / festival.

I disagree.

Lots of people will pay to see 'name' bands, but far fewer people have any interest - even at a tenner - in bands that have not become famous. Ultimately the public's perception is that those bands are not famous because they're not so good.

I realise that's not always true, but that's the sort of perception you'll need to over-come to shift the tickets. Don't forget that you're not only asking them to part with money, you're also asking them to give up a day of their life for what you're offering too - and it needs to appeal to them for them to make that personal investment.

[atomised]

The alt fest example came to mind when reading the original post. The naivety of thinking because a band could sell so many tickets for a headline show the same number of tickets could be shifted just for that band at a festival

[Katster]

You also don't seem to have much considered any competition you may have. There are small festivals pretty much every weekend throughout the summer accross the country. Why would people pick yours over another? What's so special about it? (I'm not criticising these are questions you need to be asking yourself). Personally I would say start off with 499 people and call it a private party, see how you get on, learn from it etc. with less than 500 people you do not need a licence fee (unless rules have changed?) and although any profit made from it would be far less, so would the losses if it were to go that way too. You need to do a LOT more research.

[panky]

well i was looking for advise but most of the people that have replied have literally said 'dont do it, you will fail' in simple terms... wether you think this or not it may well be true im still going to go ahead with it, if people didnt risk it at the start we wouldn't have Glastonbury today...

im looking more after actual advise rather than doubts

You also don't seem to have much considered any competition you may have. There are small festivals pretty much every weekend throughout the summer accross the country. Why would people pick yours over another? What's so special about it? (I'm not criticising these are questions you need to be asking yourself). Personally I would say start off with 499 people and call it a private party, see how you get on, learn from it etc. with less than 500 people you do not need a licence fee (unless rules have changed?) and although any profit made from it would be far less, so would the losses if it were to go that way too. You need to do a LOT more research.

as i said this event wont be for another 6 months so i am literally at the begginning of my planning phase so obviously research is going to be key... i will be finding out venues in and around the area and be speaking to them also to find out the best dates

1 of my friends on my team has also helped organise a rave which held roughly 500 people and worked very well

im also thinking about working on the niche of military, being military myself i have a lot of people that would be interested in coming and having camps on the south coast half price for forces would bring in some tickets

If it was that easy, every new festival would be a success.

Regarding the bands, if they say they can bring an audience, then surely they'd be happy to have tickets to sell to their audience instead of money? You could structure the deal so they stand to make more via that than they would if paid cash, and it removes some of the risk from you. This is something that a few festies do, especially with acts that are only 'locally famous'.

If bands don't wish to go with a deal like that then treat the claims of the bands about their popularity with caution.

The real point is tho that even well-established venue promoters with great contacts fail at putting on a successful festival, because it's not as easy to be successful as you're believing. If you go into it thinking it will be that easy that's only likely to make your failure all the bigger.

It's not impossible to create a successful festival, but ultimately (until it gets well-established) it probably has as much to do with luck than planning. For example, if it rains you can probably expect only half the audience that you might otherwise have had, and there's nothing you can do to control the weather.

ok thats good to know, but how would that work? they get the money made from there own ticket sales?

i do understand that it will be a hard project but if i start doubting myself at the very beginning then what hope will i have when the stress actually starts hitting me later on closer the time of the venue think positive

[Guest]

it's better to recognise those doubts now, rather than the day(s) of the festival when no-one's turned up and your surrounded by people wanting to get paid. Have you got thousands of pounds you can afford to lose? Maybe you have, in which case, good luck!

Edited October 8, 2014 by tonyblair

[eFestivals]

well i was looking for advise but most of the people that have replied have literally said 'dont do it, you will fail' in simple terms... wether you think this or not it may well be true im still going to go ahead with it, if people didnt risk it at the start we wouldn't have Glastonbury today...

im looking more after actual advise rather than doubts

No one is saying "don't do it". You're being advised that it's not as easy an enterprise as your words are suggesting you believe it to be.

If you go into it with your eyes open to all of the potential issues rather than thinking its easy, then you'll be better able to better deal with those issues and perhaps as a result it'll be the success you hope.

im also thinking about working on the niche of military, being military myself i have a lot of people that would be interested in coming and having camps on the south coast half price for forces would bring in some tickets

That might work to your advantage, but it might not too. Those people are also your potential full-price audience, so the more you give cheapies to the more full-price tickets you'll have to sell to make it a financial success - it's not the case that extra numbers is all extra profit.

ok thats good to know, but how would that work? they get the money made from there own ticket sales?

yep, exactlky that.

If (say) the band want a £500 fee, then you could give them (say) 60 £10 tickets - which means they get £600 if their claims match the reality, and them shifting tickets to their fans helps ensure you an audience, while leaving you with less expense &/or hassle with promoting the event.

i do understand that it will be a hard project but if i start doubting myself at the very beginning then what hope will i have when the stress actually starts hitting me later on closer the time of the venue think positive

There's nothing that can't be over-come with the right plans and the right efforts, but that does require you to have the right plans and efforts - tho there's no method which you can use to know you have the right plans and efforts; you only get to find out if you've got it right on the day it happens.

So ultimately, it's a big gamble.

One thing i see a lot which ends up with failure is people putting on an event and just believing that the event happening is enough to make it a success.

I blame Wayne's World and their "if you book them, they will come" thing for this, but there's plenty of 'promoters' who don't do much in the way of promotion. You have to get out there, all the time, and promote, promote, promote - and even that doesn't ensure anything. People will only come if it interests them.

A positive attitude is a good thing to have, but it's not enough by itself. If people with long experience in the music biz often can't make it work, it's worth bearing in mind that it'll be even harder for you to do it.

Lots of people have said to me over the years that I'm well-placed to put something on and it to be a success, but the reason I haven't isn't only down to my lack of bottle. Even a small event is a major enterprise that will take an awful lot of time and expertise to put on, and its something that might cost you thousands as well, rather than make you money.

Edited October 8, 2014 by eFestivals

[panky]

it's better to recognise those doubts now, rather than the day(s) of the festival when no-one's turned up and your surrounded by people wanting to get paid. Have you got thousands of pounds you can afford to lose? Maybe you have, in which case, good luck!

no very true, i understand that and i know there are alot of things i have to look into which can go wrong but i cant see these doubts and dwell on them, i have to adapt and overcome the odds to succeed

with the comment 'if nobody turns up' this is why il be selling tickets a few weeks prior to the venue so i can get a rough estimate of attendance and if things do turn out for the worst i can cancel some things with no loss and others with the minimal deposit but this is the worst case scenario

[jump]

no very true, i understand that and i know there are alot of things i have to look into which can go wrong but i cant see these doubts and dwell on them, i have to adapt and overcome the odds to succeed

with the comment 'if nobody turns up' this is why il be selling tickets a few weeks prior to the venue so i can get a rough estimate of attendance and if things do turn out for the worst i can cancel some things with no loss and others with the minimal deposit but this is the worst case scenario

Selling tixs a few weeks wont be long enough, things like word of mouth, promotion etc wont have enough time to take effect especially if you are looking for 1k+ people.

[panky]

That might work to your advantage, but it might not too. Those people are also your potential full-price audience, so the more you give cheapies to the more full-price tickets you'll have to sell to make it a financial success - it's not the case that extra numbers is all extra profit.

i do see that problem but with the cheaper prices for example half price, in my personal experience is that soldiers drink twice as much as an average civi so revenue would come back with the bar, also if people look to see a good idea its the stepping stone to getting a wider audience, he might see half price as a good deal so wants to go but doesnt want to go on his/her own so they bring family friends... it is however just an idea until i actually look at budgets and numbers in more detail...

yep, exactlky that.

If (say) the band want a £500 fee, then you could give them (say) 60 £10 tickets - which means they get £600 if their claims match the reality, and them shifting tickets to their fans helps ensure you an audience, while leaving you with less expense &/or hassle with promoting the event.

ok i get what you mean, so doing it this way would generate more money for them and hopefully guarentee ticket sales without me having to pay for the band direct, thats actually a really good idea

Lots of people have said to me over the years that I'm well-placed to put something on and it to be a success, but the reason I haven't isn't only down to my lack of bottle. Even a small event is a major enterprise that will take an awful lot of time and expertise to put on, and its something that might cost you thousands as well, rather than make you money.

again like i said this wont be some game changer that will change my life for ever, and until i brake everything down completely i wont know for sure but estimations that i have researched things costing if they whole thing flops and for instance i have to cancel the gig 'worst case scenario' i would literally only lose a few thousand so yes it is a gamble but at least i have some control over the outcome rather than betting red on roulette

[panky]

Selling tixs a few weeks wont be long enough, things like word of mouth, promotion etc wont have enough time to take effect especially if you are looking for 1k+ people.

the only reason i say 2 weeks is because of what sombody else actually advised me, giving time long enough so people cant copy the tickets, but i have been in contact with a ticket office and will be getting UV tickets, i dont know anything about forgery but im guessing thats pretty hard to copy so i probably will start selling a bit further before the venue tbh

[jump]

the only reason i say 2 weeks is because of what sombody else actually advised me, giving time long enough so people cant copy the tickets, but i have been in contact with a ticket office and will be getting UV tickets, i dont know anything about forgery but im guessing thats pretty hard to copy so i probably will start selling a bit further before the venue tbh

That applies more to sending the tixs out 3ish weeks before the event, not selling them.

Unless you're getting name acts I wouldn't worry about forgery no one is going to create fake tixs for cheap non-famous bands to sell on ebay, there will be no profit in it for them.

Edited October 8, 2014 by jump

[panky]

im in two minds whether to have a dj based venue obviously playing dance, or a a venue with live bands and singers, i would ultimately like to have both but im not too sure how id congregate them within a 1 day venue...

what are the pro's and con's for holding both types of venue?

is it possible have a mixture throughout the day and if so how? for example on a bigger scale, glastonbury vs tomorrowland but 1 stage...

[panky]

That applies more to sending the tixs out 3ish weeks before the event, not selling them.

Unless you're getting name acts I wouldn't worry about forgery no one is going to create fake tixs for cheap non-famous bands to sell on ebay, there will be no profit in it for them.

so you mean sell the tickets over a month before the venue but dont send the tickets out til a few weeks before?

[eFestivals]

i do see that problem but with the cheaper prices for example half price, in my personal experience is that soldiers drink twice as much as an average civi so revenue would come back with the bar, also if people look to see a good idea its the stepping stone to getting a wider audience, he might see half price as a good deal so wants to go but doesnt want to go on his/her own so they bring family friends... it is however just an idea until i actually look at budgets and numbers in more detail...

your 'normal' punters will be pissed off to be having to pay twice what others do, and won't buy as a result.

Your 'normal' punters won't consider a festival full of squaddies as the place they want to be.

again like i said this wont be some game changer that will change my life for ever, and until i brake everything down completely i wont know for sure but estimations that i have researched things costing if they whole thing flops and for instance i have to cancel the gig 'worst case scenario' i would literally only lose a few thousand so yes it is a gamble but at least i have some control over the outcome rather than betting red on roulette

you think a festival that might generate £10k in sales will only cost a few grand to put on?

Get back to us when you return to planet earth.

I put on a very small show in a hall about ten years back - I lost around £3k on it. That show was very cheap to put on, compared to putting stuff on in a field.

There's a number of reasons for that loss, including the fact that I wasn't too bothered about having that loss - but it was still that loss from an enterprise that was far far smaller than the smallest thing you've suggested you might do, and where the costs of doing that show were MUCH lower.

Edited October 8, 2014 by eFestivals