Your word of the day. Feel free to not join in.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

How do you pronounce it? Cwalt -agg?

my son was telling me that they're considering changing English spellings tomake them phonetic, because it takes longer to learn English than any other language.

I'm afraid I have no idea how it's pronounced.

Who are 'they' that your son speaks of?

[grumpyhack]

I don't think you'd necessarily have to be Welsh to feel hiraeth, though it is something that Welsh people seem to 'get'. Just reading the word brings on that feeling. Obviously, since it's a Welsh word that sort of means homesickness (but much more) it relates to Wales, but I'm sure it must be a common human feeling. It's that aching feeling you get.

What do you think, grumpyhack?

I was born in Devon, adopted and was moved to Bristol when I was four months old. I grew up and went to school and spent my teenage years in Bristol. I moved to South Wales in 1974 so have spent more than half my life and most of my working career in Wales and now feel Welsh. (To the point where I cheer for Wales when they play England at rugby).

I work mainly in the more impoverished parts of the South Wales Valleys and I love the place.

Occasionally I visit Bristol, though have no family there any more, and I always get a tingle when I cross the Severn Bridge coming back into Wales from England.

I can't explain that feeling but it's something to do with being back with 'real' people, with no airs and graces.

It may well be that many people have an affinity with a place or a region, maybe the North East or somewhere like Cornwall. It's just that the Welsh have a wonderful word that encapsulates it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, there are equivalent words in several other languages like Portugese. I went there for a holiday last year and saw some Fado singing where the songs are tinged with great sadness and yearning for the past. So I don't think the emotion is exclusively Welsh. It's just that there is no single direct equivalent word in English that sums that mix of feelings up so well.

Maybe seasoned Glastonbury goers also get the feeling when they see the Tor again and finally enter the site and feel that they are 'back home' to a special world.

Edited January 22, 2015 by grumpyhack

[feral chile]

I'm afraid I have no idea how it's pronounced.

Who are 'they' that your son speaks of?

He's out at the moment, and I forget, it sounded vaguely official, maybe the English Spelling Society (who I don't think are official)

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

He's out at the moment, and I forget, it sounded vaguely official, maybe the English Spelling Society (who I don't think are official)

I don't suppose you'd mind asking him would you? I'm interested to know the true base of this 'movement'. Not sure why, but I am.

[Spindles]

Saudade was also mentioned in the article I was reading that brought hiraeth to my attention (it also contained cwtch, possibly the most common welsh language word to have made the transition to english and another corker).

There is something about the suggestion to simplify the language into some sort of text speak that reminds me of newspeak. I read an article on the BBC the other day, but can't remember who is behind this suggestion.

[feral chile]

I don't suppose you'd mind asking him would you? I'm interested to know the true base of this 'movement'. Not sure why, but I am.

Just asked him, and he can't remember, but seeing as he's into politics, he probably got it from this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30698266

and therefore it would be the English Spelling Society.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Just asked him, and he can't remember, but seeing as he's into politics, he probably got it from this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30698266

and therefore it would be the English Spelling Society.

Thanks for feeding back feral. I've just looked on their site and it says this about their promotion for change;

But the economic and social costs are serious. English speaking children take up to three years longer to learn to read and write than others and some never succeed. Our dyslexics struggle in a way that Italian and Spanish children do not. Adult illiteracy throughout the English Speaking World remains a matter of major concern.

Interesting stuff.

[grumpyhack]

The problem is in part that there is no such thing as 'officially correct English'. In France they have the Acadamie Francaise that each year decrees new French words - mainly to avoid French being diluted by English or American words. They are trying to stamp out things like Le Weekend. So when the computer came along the Acadamie decided that the official French word for computer should be ordinateur.

Similarly the Acadamie rules on correct spelling, grammar and punctuation.

In the UK people sometimes refer to Queen's English or BBC English and there is also the very laudable Plain English Campaign, which tries to stamp out gobbledegook and has 'translated' lots of documents from government department's bureaucrat speak into language that we can understand (often by splitting up over-long sentences like this).

English has been left to naturally evolve. We rarely see Ye Olde Tea Shoppe - except in tourist traps like Stratford. We don't use a lot of the language or spellings of Chaucer, Shakespeare or even Dickens today and 'text speak' has changed things a lot. LOL and Gr8 are commonly used and, one day, may migrate from the mobile phone to the printed word.

[Ted Dansons Wig]

The problem is in part that there is no such thing as 'officially correct English'. In France they have the Acadamie Francaise that each year decrees new French words - mainly to avoid French being diluted by English or American words. They are trying to stamp out things like Le Weekend. So when the computer came along the Acadamie decided that the official French word for computer should be ordinateur.

Similarly the Acadamie rules on correct spelling, grammar and punctuation.

Though this will make me sound really thick (but am really curious as I love etymology) Has ordinateur stuck as the word for computer in French or is Le computer now more commonly used?

[feral chile]

I have trouble with masculine and feminine tenses, and mutations. So grammar in other languages is more a problem to me than spelling.

[grumpyhack]

Though this will make me sound really thick (but am really curious as I love etymology) Has ordinateur stuck as the word for computer in French or is Le computer now more commonly used?

No in France that's what you use or buy and what it's called.

[feral chile]

I don't suppose you'd mind asking him would you? I'm interested to know the true base of this 'movement'. Not sure why, but I am.

I caught the tail end of this on Breakfast this morning, so the campaign must be generating discussion again..

[grumpyhack]

Taupe (pronunciation: /ˈtoʊp/ tohp) is a dark tan color in-between brown and grey. The word derives from the French noun taupe meaning "mole". The name originally referred only to the average colour of the French mole, but beginning in the 1940s, its usage expanded to encompass a wider range of shades.

Taupe is a vague color term which may refer to almost any grayish-brown or brownish-gray, but true taupe is difficult to pinpoint whether it is brown or gray.

According to the Dictionary of Colour, the first use of "taupe" as a colour name in English was in the early 19th century; but the earliest citation recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary is from 1911. In the film Oceans 11, Taupe is stated to be very soothing.

I choose the word because we are currently thinking about re-decorating one of our rooms and it is a colour that has come up. The trouble is I'm still not sure what colour it actually is. I know what red looks like or brown or grey but still can't be sure of taupe.

[feral chile]

Taupe (pronunciation: /ˈtoʊp/ tohp) is a dark tan color in-between brown and grey. The word derives from the French noun taupe meaning "mole". The name originally referred only to the average colour of the French mole, but beginning in the 1940s, its usage expanded to encompass a wider range of shades.

Taupe is a vague color term which may refer to almost any grayish-brown or brownish-gray, but true taupe is difficult to pinpoint whether it is brown or gray.

According to the Dictionary of Colour, the first use of "taupe" as a colour name in English was in the early 19th century; but the earliest citation recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary is from 1911. In the film Oceans 11, Taupe is stated to be very soothing.

I choose the word because we are currently thinking about re-decorating one of our rooms and it is a colour that has come up. The trouble is I'm still not sure what colour it actually is. I know what red looks like or brown or grey but still can't be sure of taupe.

Ha reminds me of a conversation with my daughter, I said I was thinking about repainting the landing biscuit.

she agreed, said it would look nice, thought for a bit, looked around, puzzled, then said 'what's whiskered?'

(biscuit/whiskered).

[feral chile]

That's cos men see in about six or seven colours, whereas women see in thousands.

Pumpkin is a fruit not a colour, for fucks sake.

What's the difference between burgundy and mauve? They're both dark reddy purple.

Show me a man who can tell you the difference between beige, cream, vanilla and off-white and I show you a man who's wife is obsessed with decorating.

burgundy and mauve are massively different.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

Interesting info - in my opinion;

The synthetic dye Mauve was first so named in 1859. Chemist Sir William Henry Perkin, then eighteen, was attempting to create artificial quinine in 1856. An unexpected residue caught his eye, which turned out to be the first aniline dye – specifically, Perkin's mauve or mauveine, sometimes called aniline purple, but this new dye was originally called Tyrian Purple and was only called mauve after it was marketed in 1859.

[feral chile]

Of course they are. And if you put them next to each other I'd be able to tell the difference. But in discussion I have no idea which is which.

I've just asked the missus and apparently mauve is more of a purple.

If that's right, my point is more that you don't need the word mauve. It's dark purple.

Vanilla is off white.

Burgundy is dark red.

Teal is a dark green.

All men need are the six primary and secondary colours and then the words dark light and ish. Anything else is a dulux conspiracy!

No, no it's not just light and dark, it's how much blue/red is mixed together and how much blue/green is mixed. And further combinations of the spectrum. orange/red/yellow etc. or bluey reds.

and pastel/jewel/metallic shades etc.

light/dark indeed!

Edited January 24, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

Interesting info - in my opinion;

The synthetic dye Mauve was first so named in 1859. Chemist Sir William Henry Perkin, then eighteen, was attempting to create artificial quinine in 1856. An unexpected residue caught his eye, which turned out to be the first aniline dye – specifically, Perkin's mauve or mauveine, sometimes called aniline purple, but this new dye was originally called Tyrian Purple and was only called mauve after it was marketed in 1859.

it must have been so much fun when there was still so much to be discovered.

I wonder if there'll still be people thinking that in the next millennia.

I have enough trouble understanding how zips work, or what electricity is.

Edited January 24, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

If light/dark isn't varied enough for you, feral, then I suggest the words 'very, slightly, extremely, etc.'

:-D

I don't wear makeup as I'm cosmetically challenged by not knowing if I have warm or cool skin tone.

this is really important to know if you want to colour your face, as using the wrong shades will result in the universe imploding.

Edited January 24, 2015 by feral chile

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

So you have a dark or light bluey purple and a dark or light reddy purple.

Pastel/metallic shades etc don't need their own made up names. You can use those words.

Dulux have got everyone brainwashed and the women are letting them get away with it. Who knows where it will end!!

Never mind Dulux, I have a Farrow & Ball paint choices card right in front of me (fuck knows why), and it has colours such as;

Ringwold Ground

Arsenic

Dead Salmon

Babouche

Breakfast Room Green

Elephant's Breath

Churlish

Mouse's Back

etc etc

[feral chile]

Never mind Dulux, I have a Farrow & Ball paint choices card right in front of me (fuck knows why), and it has colours such as;

Ringwold Ground

Arsenic

Dead Salmon

Babouche

Breakfast Room Green

Elephant's Breath

Churlish

Mouse's Back

etc etc

Just think, it's someone's job to invent these things. Just think of it as inventing the name of a good ale.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

My point in a nutshell. They're not colours. They're mostly bollox when you analyse them. I suspect you may have made some of them up. Elephants breath??? I'm not buying.

I'm not lying. It's light grey to you and me. The code for it is 229, if you wanted to but some.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

I've seen it all now - there's actually a colour on there called Teressa's Green.

[feral chile]

If you're truly not lying then the case for the prosecution rests m'lud.

Feral's defence case has no chance against mouse's back and elephant breath!

well mouse's back I'd accept, but elephant's breath I'd struggle with. What's it been eating to have coloured breath?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

What's it been eating to have coloured breath?

I think it's been eating lots and lots of light grey.