The Rise and Rise of UKIP

[kaosmark2]

A thought for the day for you: if you want to be smart you have to put the effort in.

I can see how it would take effort for Barry to become smart.

[kaosmark2]

Back in your box pleb

Classist c**t.

[kaosmark2]

I am certainly a c**t

And all of us here are w*nkers, but "pleb" is mostly a term used to display class superiority, such as with the Andrew Mitchell accusation. It's a term laden with prejudice. While I don't give a damn about being called it myself, I hope you don't commonly use it.

You might use it out of ignorance, or you might use it out of genuinely thinking that people of your station are superior to others. Either way, don't.

[eFestivals]

We don't all have pretend jobs posting on forums all day. Some of us have to do other stuff at some point

I work 60+ hours each and every week - 52 weeks odf the year - and not one second of that 60+ hours is spent reading news sites.

But hey, just you keep on making your own ignorance all about me, yeah? After all, your attempts at deflecting things away from your ignorance is fooling everyone.

[kaosmark2]

I work 60+ hours each and every week - 52 weeks odf the year - and not one second of that 60+ hours is spent reading news sites.

But hey, just you keep on making your own ignorance all about me, yeah? After all, your attempts at deflecting things away from your ignorance is fooling everyone.

You still doing your new job Neil?

[eFestivals]

You still doing your new job Neil?

I'm doing lots of jobs, on an ad hoc basis.

[kaosmark2]

Just for you

That's fine then

[eFestivals]

Your posting on here is included into that time. You see posting as a job. Your words.

Yep, and if you think it's not my job that's because you don't understand my job.

But do keep up with the diversions from your own chosen ignorance, it's making you look much smarter than when you were only ignorant.

[eFestivals]

But anyway Barry, are you thinking that i get my knowledge of current affairs from reading your posts here?

[kaosmark2]

For all the fact we mock Barry (justifiably ), he does at least engage with political stories, vote and occasionally admit misplaced views or ignorance. All factors which put him ahead of at least 1/3 of the population.

Scary to think there's 20 million stupider people than Barry in the country though.

[kaosmark2]

That 60 hours looks a lot more normal when you take away you playing on here.

The amount of time people engage on this site - which encourages things like adverts, gold memberships, affiliate links, etc. - has a significant amount to do with him posting here. Or do you think you'd spend as much time on his website as opposed to another if he didn't argue politics with you?

[eFestivals]

For all the fact we mock Barry (justifiably ), he does at least engage with political stories, vote and occasionally admit misplaced views or ignorance. All factors which put him ahead of at least 1/3 of the population.

Scary to think there's 20 million stupider people than Barry in the country though.

true, and yes

I reckon about 50% of the population don't have the first idea what they're voting for, no matter which party they vote for. The number of UKIP supporters describing them as a left wing party is frightening.

[kaosmark2]

true, and yes

I reckon about 50% of the population don't have the first idea what they're voting for, no matter which party they vote for. The number of UKIP supporters describing them as a left wing party is frightening.

Yup. I know people who vote Labour because "I've always voted Labour and my parents have always voted Labour", with no concept of the reasoning behind that. I know people who have said UKIP are the most environmentally aware party after the Greens! People who said they voted Tory last election because they disagreed with the Iraq war!

So much idiocy and lack of awareness around. It only takes a desire to be interested and it becomes rewarding and terrifying.

[eFestivals]

I'm now going to admit to me thinking that UKIP has one (just one) policy idea that should be looked into further.

From here: http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

– UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.

As far as i can see, there's two great advantages with this idea:-

1. it ensures that every company is contributing to the tax take, and stops the likes of Amazon using UK profits for self-investments in other parts of the world.

2. it'll destroy lots of the no-added-value businesses that exist, that simply leech off the success of others (perhaps even this business, but a good idea is a good idea!). This will increase efficiency and the UK's productivity average.

It's an idea that i discussed on these forums somewhere a year or three back, and while i'm aware that there'd be lots of complex issues around introducing it, I can't think what other means could be effectively used to stop multi-nationals from avoiding their responsibilities within the territories they operate within.

[kaosmark2]

I'm now going to admit to me thinking that UKIP has one (just one) policy idea that should be looked into further.

From here: http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people

As far as i can see, there's two great advantages with this idea:-

1. it ensures that every company is contributing to the tax take, and stops the likes of Amazon using UK profits for self-investments in other parts of the world.

2. it'll destroy lots of the no-added-value businesses that exist, that simply leech off the success of others (perhaps even this business, but a good idea is a good idea!). This will increase efficiency and the UK's productivity average.

It's an idea that i discussed on these forums somewhere a year or three back, and while i'm aware that there'd be lots of complex issues around introducing it, I can't think what other means could be effectively used to stop multi-nationals from avoiding their responsibilities within the territories they operate within.

Yeah, that's definitely a decent idea. It'd need a lot of work and fleshing out, but it seems more workable than other suggestions I've seen.

[viberunner]

Why? That would make a tory govt more likely.

It's all very well not liking what has happened in the past, but a better future is a better thing than more of the tories.

And despite how you feel, the LibDems are not the tories.

They are Tories, that's the point.

That you and others are in denial about this is one of the reasons we've had such a horrific five years.

[russycarps]

They are Tories, that's the point.

That you and others are in denial about this is one of the reasons we've had such a horrific five years.

What utter bollocks.

[kaosmark2]

The Lib Dems are power-grabbing twats who've sold the electorate and their voters down a river of excrement.

They're still better than the tories.

[eFestivals]

They are Tories, that's the point.

That you and others are in denial about this is one of the reasons we've had such a horrific five years.

and yet they've caused the tories to alter some policies, to make the tories less nasty than they would have otherwise been. They might have only been small differences, but they were differences all the same.

We'll only get something different to what you want to call all tories when there's no support for that torism. Sticking your head in the sand and saying they're all the same when they're not and have people suffer more by that is not the way to go, IMHO.

In dream politics, you can always be the winner. Back in the real world real people suffer real consequences.

[viberunner]

and yet they've caused the tories to alter some policies,

Name them, state the difference, and then compare and contrast with the social horrors they have inflicted.

[eFestivals]

Name them, state the difference, and then compare and contrast with the social horrors they have inflicted.

I'm not trying to claim the differences have been huge, and neither am I pretending that the impact of the watered-down policies hasn't been very hard.

And nor am I pretending that they've not made a difference for the better, compared to what would have otherwise been.

Edited December 11, 2014 by eFestivals

[LJS]

I'm not trying to claim the differences have been huge, and neither am I pretending that the impact of the watered-down policies hasn't been very hard.

And nor am I pretending that they've not made a difference for the better, compared to what would have otherwise been.

What would otherwise have been, though?

I.e. if the lib dems has told DC to GTF, do we know things would have been worse? They might have been, but they might also have been better. If DC had tried for a minority administration, the lib dems would have been free to vote down stuff they disagreed with.

[viberunner]

I'm not trying to claim the differences have been huge, and neither am I pretending that the impact of the watered-down policies hasn't been very hard. And nor am I pretending that they've not made a difference for the better, compared to what would have otherwise been.

What you are doing is pretending the Liberal Democrat Tories have moderated the Conservative Tories and, when asked for specifics, are unable to do so.

More than that, you assert anyone who disagrees with your evidence-free position is living in a "dream world".

[eFestivals]

What would otherwise have been, though?

We would have ended up with a tory majority govt within a short time, via a second election and the country wanting an effective govt rather than a non-effective one.

I might dislike the voting choices of those who might vote tory, but I don't pretend they don't exist.

[eFestivals]

What you are doing is pretending the Liberal Democrat Tories have moderated the Conservative Tories and, when asked for specifics, are unable to do so.

I was hoping that you were smart enough and paying enough attention to current affairs, but apparently not.

So, just for you, here's just one example: the NHS bill the govt passed.

If you want to know more, I recommend you research the facts for yourself.

More than that, you assert anyone who disagrees with your evidence-free position is living in a "dream world".

I give greater credence to facts of the real world rather than what i make up in my head cos it suits me.

Unless you can make all the neoliberal-likers evaporate in a puff of smoke, we're going to keep on getting neoliberal policies. The only realistic option by those who oppose those neoliberal policies is to moderate them, because stopping them is not currently possible.

Edited December 11, 2014 by eFestivals