What women (don't) want.

[eFestivals]

Attacking it directly will make people defend it while chipping away at the foundations will take it down cleaner.

I find that laughable, or worse. Who clings to an idea 'just because'?

People might do in the moment, but they're unlikely not to review it (perhaps even subconsciously) in the near future.

Clearly, it was a single example.

There are finite resources, less people putting their feet up at all. With a bit of positive selection there will be a greater number of women breaking through to the top. At the same time the hierarchical structure will also be flattened.

I disagree. Only some gets flattened.

It papers over the cracks and never deals with the damaged foundations that cause the cracks.

[feral chile]

Thoughts?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emily-gallo/help-is-a-4-letter-word_b_6671362.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

[bunique]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31554844

Link is about the girls from London who have travelled to Syria. I think it's interesting how the media is reporting this so differently when compared with young men who have gone to fight with Isis.

[feral chile]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/04/mean-boys-study_n_6269960.html

[russycarps]

Who said anything about it being depraved? I didn't, it barely registers on the scale.

I brought it up because I'd read, in more than one article about how confused some girls are by the requests of some boys who get their sex 'eduacation' from easily accessible porn on the web.

I'm not even making a judgement on it, but you're not going to tell me that a lot of porn isn't 'scripted' to portray women in a subservient role, are you?

I'm not sure, the only porn I watch is fake taxi. And I feel they take advantage of the poor driver in those scenes, using their womanly charms to get free lifts

[feral chile]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31554844

Link is about the girls from London who have travelled to Syria. I think it's interesting how the media is reporting this so differently when compared with young men who have gone to fight with Isis.

yes, this shows concern for the girls.

[feral chile]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663558/ISIS-releases-chilling-recruitment-video-featuring-young-British-men.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737095/Survivor-ISIS-childrens-camp-reveals-young-boys-whipped-watch-men-crucified-women-stoned-death.html

A quick search shows mixed attitudes, the first report concerns a 20 year old though.

I think as a parent I'd show a lot more concern if my 20 year old son was over there, though, so reading between the lines...

[feral chile]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lori-day/if-our-sons-were-treated-like-our-daughters_b_6698346.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

Interesting gender switching exercise, probably lots more could be added though.

(most feminists have done quite a few of these, from refusing to provide geneder specific toys t only the target sex, and to objectifying men.)

Edited February 21, 2015 by feral chile

[bunique]

Is it very different? Given the ages (two 15 year olds!), I'd like to think the same concern would be shown if they were boys

I think even if they were older, the reporting would portray them as victims much more than it does young men. Because those poor little women couldn't possibly be thinking for themselves, anymore than those abhorrent terrorist men could be brainwashed by propaganda...

[feral chile]

I think even if they were older, the reporting would portray them as victims much more than it does young men. Because those poor little women couldn't possibly be thinking for themselves, anymore than those abhorrent terrorist men could be brainwashed by propaganda...

I think you do get some reports treating them as victims rather than a threat, but only when you have an in depth article looking at the recruitment process.

[feral chile]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/it-s-man-s-and-woman-s-world/201412/why-breakups-are-actually-tougher-men?utm_source=FacebookPost&utm_medium=FBPost&utm_campaign=FBPost

mmm...men suffer more from relationship breakups.

[feral chile]

A lot of that could be an argument for, and evidence that women are stronger emotionally.

Do wives instigate divorce because of their husbands weaknesses, that make them insecure and more likely to cheat? Their possible need for success?

Begs as many questions as answers.

I agree...it's open to interpretation.

[feral chile]

The thing is, for me, I tend to try and disregard the preconceptions, even the possibly indisputable differences between men and women, generally. Whatever men are more than women (physically stronger for example) in general, there'll be plenty of exceptions. There are many women who are physically stronger than many men. I just think more of a balance seems to be a good idea.

One of the many ironies is that women are traditionally the cooks at home, yet the famous chefs are usually men? Does that say something about our male dominated society? Is it a trick by women to turn cooking into a competition so that men will want be best?

Well, if you're a Terry Pratchett fan, it's a bit like the difference between the Wizards and the Witches.

[feral chile]

http://www.alternet.org/when-women-wanted-sex-much-more-men

[Katster]

we all want to be thought of as successful, both men and women.

I don't.

[feral chile]

I don't.

Do you mean at work?

What about in other spheres?

[Katster]

Do you mean at work?

What about in other spheres?

I mean in any sphere. I don't care. I strive to be a good mother because I feel I should, not so I can impress others. I work hard because I like my job, not because I want to please others.

[feral chile]

I mean in any sphere. I don't care. I strive to be a good mother because I feel I should, not so I can impress others. I work hard because I like my job, not because I want to please others.

Do you associate being successful as pleasing others, then, rather than achieving your aims?

[midnight]

I mean in any sphere. I don't care. I strive to be a good mother because I feel I should, not so I can impress others. I work hard because I like my job, not because I want to please others.

Interesting. I have to echo the above - being successful to me means achieving my own goals, not pleasing others (though that might be a side effect in some cases).

[kaosmark2]

I think making people happy is a good thing to do in life. That said "pleasing others " implies its a bit more sacrificial.

[midnight]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663558/ISIS-releases-chilling-recruitment-video-featuring-young-British-men.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737095/Survivor-ISIS-childrens-camp-reveals-young-boys-whipped-watch-men-crucified-women-stoned-death.html

A quick search shows mixed attitudes, the first report concerns a 20 year old though.

I think as a parent I'd show a lot more concern if my 20 year old son was over there, though, so reading between the lines...

It's horrid for a parent to be unable to do anything in such circumstances, but media coverage aside, why would you be more concerned about a 20 year old son than a 15 year old daughter? Both have a whacking chance to get killed. The girls are also supposed to get married to some of the fighters asap after their arrival (if I understand the campaign's reasons for getting young girls to join correctly, it's to provide wives and offspring) so they are likely to wind up pregnant in the middle of nowhere at the age of 15. Then, if they survive, they will have to fend for themselves and their children.... I'd be at least as worried for a daughter, if I had one.

And 15 year olds are not adults under UK law.

[midnight]

I think making people happy is a good thing to do in life. That said "pleasing others " implies its a bit more sacrificial.

Yes. I'd say there's being successful in your own terms (like trying to contribute to the happiness of people you like, or simply achieving things hat you think will make you happy), and being "a success" in an externally defined way. Both can overlap.

[midnight]

This has just appeared on Cracked.com:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/8-a242423oles-who-show-up-every-time-word-feminism-used/

I haven't read it yet. I just thought this thread may like it.

Heh, thanks. You should read it - it's funny.

[midnight]

http://www.alternet.org/when-women-wanted-sex-much-more-men

And that one is quite amusing too.

Though the Tiresias story always seemed a bit odd to me, he was turned into a women as a form of punishment (!), from which he was finally released (!!) to become a man again, if girls have almost all the fun, why was he so keen to return to his manly existence? Sorry, rethorical question. There must be enormous compensations in being a man. (Btw, the mentioned quarrel between Zeus and Hera that Tiresias settles was rooted in Zeus's notorious philandering with many beautiful women, plus the odd handsome boy. This is said to have made his wife very unhappy. If women have much more fun..... well, never mind.)

In my 20s I had a bit more time on my hands, so I read Casanova's memoirs - the whole unabridged version, which is cracking read, although a very long one. He chased a lot of women (and some of them were quite reluctant), but at some point he discusses whever men or women have more fun when it comes to it, and he is convinced that it's the women. His reasoning is that they usually risk getting pregnant, and he reckons that this would be enough to totally put him off. I was quite amused by that.

Interesting how perceptions have changed.

Edited February 23, 2015 by midnight

[Katster]

Do you associate being successful as pleasing others, then, rather than achieving your aims?

Not really, no. Being successful can mean both of those things or neither of them. I do like to please others but I also like to please myself. I feel proud of myself if I am successful at something and its nice if others also value that success but I don't need them to.