What women (don't) want.

[eFestivals]

A lot of that could be an argument for, and evidence that women are stronger emotionally.

and the evidence of women often bursting into tears is counter evidence.

Are people seeing what they want to see...? I'd say so.

Edited February 23, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

I don't.

so you want to be thought of as a shit mother?

Or might you want to be thought of as a successful mother?

I wasn't talking about just jobs. People measure their own success against the things which are most important to them, but also against the things where they do have some success. There's no point wanting to be thought of as a successful brain surgeon if you've no chance of ever being a brain surgeon.

[eFestivals]

Is crying a weakness?

In what i'm referencing, it's certainly widely perceived as one.

I'm sure some women might claim it as a way to manipulate men, but true strength wouldn't deem that as necessary.

[eFestivals]

Necessary? True strength?

I claim it as necessary. Anyone who doesn't cry, or thinks it a weakness is either weird, or emotionally disfunctional

Perhaps stop and think about what this thread is about, before you let your brain run away with itself along a very wrong track?

[eFestivals]

You brought up the 'bursting into tears', thing, and I just wanted to clarify if you saw it as a weakness. Which, apparently, you do.

I think that's very relevant to the discussion.

I bought up the 'tears' thing against a particular thing someone (you i think) had said. It wasn't a comment about tears in all circumstances, but about tears in specific circumstances.

And yes, in those cases it's undoubtedly a weakness. You don't show strength in a disagreement/confrontation by bursting into tears.

The best it can show with regard to strength/weakness is an attempt at manipulation.

[eFestivals]

That's weird

If you say so, tony. Perhaps you might even say why?

Or is this another one of those "I'm saying words without having a meaning behind those words" things that you do all the time?

[eFestivals]

I think it's a weird thing to say, or think. Sorry. Maybe I'm weird.

Crying is a natural emotional response. My understanding is that it's not good to not let that (crying) happen

again, I'll point out that my comment was not about crying in general.

But hey, you're welcome to have an argument with yourself.

[eFestivals]

Well swerved. If you don't want to be specific, fine.

Care to tell me how a women bursting into tears because she doesn't like the way a convo has gone is a sign of anything but weakness?

[fred quimby]

Care to tell me how a women bursting into tears because she doesn't like the way a convo has gone is a sign of anything but weakness?

Surely that depends on how the convo is going and what it being said. Probably all about context

[eFestivals]

Surely that depends on how the convo is going and what it being said. Probably all about context

the context normally being that the female doesn't like the way the convo has gone.

So it's either submission to the truth within that convo, or it's an attempt to manipulate the response via emotional means and not intelligence.

Either way, its weakness.

[fred quimby]

I assume you are just apply crying as weakness, you seemed to be just refering to women (I know the tittle of the thread) so I assume you mean Men as well.

Must admit I have never thought about conversations and whether you have to be "strong". I just see them as conversations.

I do think context does play a part as this could trigger certain emotions that would make someone cry, Mentioning their recently dead Dad say, or would you see that as weak and they should old onto their emotions.

[eFestivals]

I assume you are just apply crying as weakness, you seemed to be just refering to women (I know the tittle of the thread) so I assume you mean Men as well.

it could apply to men just as easily, tho they're not particularly known for tears when something hasn't go0ne the way they'd prefer.

Must admit I have never thought about conversations and whether you have to be "strong". I just see them as conversations.

I don't either. They're an exchange of words and no need to be anything else.

But sometimes some people choose to make them something more than just an exchange of words.

I do think context does play a part as this could trigger certain emotions that would make someone cry, Mentioning their recently dead Dad say, or would you see that as weak and they should old onto their emotions.

That's not the sort of thing I'm on about.

[fred quimby]

That's not the sort of thing I'm on about.

Ah Ok

it could apply to men just as easily, tho they're not particularly known for tears when something hasn't go0ne the way they'd prefer.

I still don't see it as weak really, I just see it as someone who crys. That is weakness in your eyes perhaps.

And yes I have met many people who seem to read to much into conversations, but once again that's just the way some folk are, I bet I have done it, probably you too (not the crying bit that I remember) but that was probably in a relationship and that of course can be it's own emotional whirlwind.

[eFestivals]

I still don't see it as weak really, I just see it as someone who crys. That is weakness in your eyes perhaps.

they're crying for a reason, and not no-reason.

[fred quimby]

they're crying for a reason, and not no-reason.

Yes, something has not gone their way

[eFestivals]

Yes, something has not gone their way

which would make it an acknowledgement or admission of some sort of failure, then. And probably, also some sort of last-ditch attempt at emotional blackmail.

When someone can't get the result they want via fair means and has to resort to underhand means, that's not a strength but the opposite.

[fred quimby]

which would make it an acknowledgement or admission of some sort of failure, then. And probably, also some sort of last-ditch attempt at emotional blackmail.

When someone can't get the result they want via fair means and has to resort to underhand means, that's not a strength but the opposite.

or they are just crying.

I'm sure many people have different ways to handle something like that, stomping off, getting angry.

[bunique]

The crying thing is interesting. At work I deal with some deeply unpleasant people face to face but more so on the phone. While I've managed to come through those conversations thus far without crying, there have been a couple of times where at the end of that phone call I have burst into tears. Usually it's frustration, or an emotional release in response to extreme provocation. Maybe others would go for a walk, punch a wall... Crying is a coping mechanism for some and in most cases involuntary I would have thought. I certainly haven't come across anyone who uses tears as a tool of manipulation in a work context, and I would have thought it's fairly easy to spot the manipulation in any other context. So it's not a very effective tactic?

[eFestivals]

or they are just crying.

at best that could be said as irrational, then.

Edited February 23, 2015 by eFestivals

[russycarps]

It could be a simple, natural response. I could think of many instances when to not cry would be a sign of a level of emotional disfunction

do you think if angela merkel started crying during discussions with vladimir putin it would be perfectly fine?

[eFestivals]

do you think if angela merkel started crying during discussions with vladimir putin it would be perfectly fine?

A nice illustration Russy.

(I was starting to regret having made my first comment on this tangent.)

[krisskross]

Its been shown that even as babies girls have a lower crying threshold than boys. The response to crying is also different between boys and girls. Girls seek (or are taught to) more catharsis from others while boys tend not to express their emotions. There is a large cultural effect as well, European cultures tend to have a bigger gender difference.

As for the Angela Merkel thing... I'm sure shes very aware there is no chance of emotional support from anyone in those discussions.

[krisskross]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/it-s-man-s-and-woman-s-world/201412/why-breakups-are-actually-tougher-men?utm_source=FacebookPost&utm_medium=FBPost&utm_campaign=FBPost

mmm...men suffer more from relationship breakups.

"When asked who they would turn to first if they were feeling depressed, 71% of men selected their wife whereas only 39% of women selected their husband"

Kind of ties in with the whole crying/catharsis thing.

[fred quimby]

do you think if angela merkel started crying during discussions with vladimir putin it would be perfectly fine?

Maybe if they did the world would end up a more peaceful place

But as I said further up, context

Edited February 23, 2015 by fred quimby

[feral chile]

It's horrid for a parent to be unable to do anything in such circumstances, but media coverage aside, why would you be more concerned about a 20 year old son than a 15 year old daughter? Both have a whacking chance to get killed. The girls are also supposed to get married to some of the fighters asap after their arrival (if I understand the campaign's reasons for getting young girls to join correctly, it's to provide wives and offspring) so they are likely to wind up pregnant in the middle of nowhere at the age of 15. Then, if they survive, they will have to fend for themselves and their children.... I'd be at least as worried for a daughter, if I had one.

And 15 year olds are not adults under UK law.

I meant more concerned than the parents in the article, not more concerned than for a daughter.

I'd be pretty worried if they wanted to enlist anyway.

(It's always a lot clearer in my head than written down lol)