What women (don't) want.

[bunique]

I would imagine it's almost impossible to compare because there will be thousands unreported

[bunique]

Official statistics suggest India's numbers are much, much lower.

[LondonTom]

And here is where I'm curious as to why men like looking at girls tits, if we really want to get to the bottom of it. It's totally acceptable.

I know a couple of women who like to look at other women's breasts to, there just rather nice to look at aren't they? (Across a wide varriety to!). I don't think its a big mystery. Its one of the first things after we are born we/want, could you argue that women have infact been conditioned to not appreciate them.

[russycarps]

Are the numbers of rapes in india and uk really that different?

I'd say so, yes.

[feral chile]

so why is rape so prevalent in india but not so much in the uk? Because women have decided it wont be that way? Come off it.

Aren't we lucky that UK men are so morally superior to Indian men then. Since they only decide to be decent men on a totally, unconditioned whim.

So, you think all men are potential rapists, do you?

Men get raped too. (By men, neil, I mean).

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2013/12/why-india-sitting-social-timb-bomb-violence-against-women

I find this whole 'you're only safe because we allow you to be' assertion you're making extremely offensive and pompous.

Because that means you're safe only because men allow you to be. Let's not pretend that has anything to do with anything more than pathology.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10657485/Men-and-boys-get-raped-too.html

Edited March 4, 2015 by feral chile

[midnight]

Are the numbers of rapes in india and uk really that different?

That's really hard to establish, because the way each incident is recorded differs so much between countries, and it is one of those massively under reported crimes.

According to this article (which seems a bit more together than some others), it's a lot higher in the UK than in India once you work it out as a percentage of the population:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/quick-click/which-country-has-the-highest-reported-incidents-rape-data

So in 2010, they had 22,172 reported cases in India (for a population of about 1.2 billion), and 15,934 reported cases for England & Wales combined (about 60 million people). It's under-reported in most countries, but the social stigma is worse in India, so probably far less reporting. Sweden reports more cases of rape than any other European country, but that seems to have something to do with the way they record each separate incident.

The really chilling thing about the article (the interview with the convicted guy from the famous Dehli rape) is the general attitude towards women, the kind of punishments (rape and murder, essentially) that are considered acceptable for a woman who steps out of line.

Edited March 5, 2015 by midnight

[bunique]

Feral - what power (for want of a better word) do you think a woman has to avoid being raped?

[bunique]

I was reading something interesting earlier, that there are 37 million more men than women in India (due to sex selection in pregnancy, infanticide and neglect of girls as children) and the particular challenges this presented - men banding together in gangs (and the associated negative behaviours that come with gang mentality) and multiple brothers sharing one wife to protect a meagre inheritance. Fascinating stuff

[bunique]

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2013/12/why-india-sitting-social-timb-bomb-violence-against-women

[russycarps]

Aren't we lucky that UK men are so morally superior to Indian men then. Since they only decide to be decent men on a totally, unconditioned whim.

So, you think all men are potential rapists, do you?

Men get raped too. (By men, neil, I mean).

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2013/12/why-india-sitting-social-timb-bomb-violence-against-women

I find this whole 'you're only safe because we allow you to be' assertion you're making extremely offensive and pompous.

Because that means you're safe only because men allow you to be. Let's not pretend that has anything to do with anything more than pathology.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/10657485/Men-and-boys-get-raped-too.html

Pompous? it's just an unpleasant reality unfortunately.

[eFestivals]

The best thing about a sexual relationship is the feeling of a sense of oneness, that you both want the same thing. Could that have something to do with it?

are you saying that "what women want" is "a man", tony?

We don't have a patriarchal society, but three 15 year old girls have just gone to Syria to be jihadi brides. Odd, isn't it?

[eFestivals]

Some (many?) women like to be in a relationship where the man does the man things and the woman has babies and stays at home. I find it a bit odd, but not surprising.

why not try to think about 'why' rather than just think it "a bit odd"?

There's a bit of learning in there for you, which if you do it right should have you calling yourself an idiot.

[eFestivals]

I do think about it, a lot.

try harder?

Just a thought.

Patronising git!

For that to be right, you'd have to get what you don't.

[eFestivals]

Here we go.....

I thought you were 'out of here '?

better than being off my rocker.

[eFestivals]

blimey tony, do you kinow where you're heading with suggestions like that as "interesting"...?

You're getting closer to calling yourself an idiot, if only your brain kicks in.

[eFestivals]

and I'm an idiot.

I don't know where I'd be without you Neil. You're so sweet!

I know where you are without me tony, but your posts keep on showing that you don't.

Which is what I keep pointing out. You'd do much better considering what you've posted than what I've posted about where you're going and what that will result in - you calling yourself an idiot. That is, unless you think it's smarter to not think about what you've said, via which you prove yourself an idiot. Either way, it's much the same from where your sat, tho one makes you wiser than the other.

[eFestivals]

Interesting article here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/my-boyfriend-sort-of-raped-me-and-i-didnt-even-break-up-with-him?CMP=fb_gu

"The man and I had been fighting. We fought and then we made love, and as we did he said, “I want to come inside of you.” This was not dirty talk – it was a proposal. I told him not to, I didn’t want him to.

When he finished he said, “I did it, I came inside of you!” Then added, “fuck you” sticking his middle finger up at me. His face, pink with a slick of sweat, was full of fury and glee."

I tell you what, i'll do it in a tony-friendly way, to see if there's actually anything in there....

Why is it "interesting", tony?

Is it interesting because it means nothing to you? In which case, why have you posted it?

Or is it interesting because it means something to you?

If it means something to you tony, care to tell us what it means to you?

[eFestivals]

I have no desire to engage with you Neil. You'll only use whatever I say to back up your claim that I'm an idiot and a moron.

If you don't find it interesting, fine.

So it's "interesting" but you can't say why.

And then you wonder why I think so much of what you say is moronic.

[feral chile]

Feral - what power (for want of a better word) do you think a woman has to avoid being raped?

exactly the same power a man has.

it's the world view I'm objecting to, the generalisations that the deviants are in control.

Edited March 5, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

exactly the same power a man has.

I just think it's a stupid argument.

I'm sure there's lots of middle class men who could be taken down by a vicious lad off the streets - you don't find people going around saying that the scumbags only allow us our safety because they choose to.

if it's true of rapists it's true of the rest of the opportunist lowlife scum who prey on others.

(oops quoted instead of edited).

Edited March 5, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

And I do think rape is about dominance.

so yes, an individual man might have the power to rape an individual woman. An individual mugger might have the power to attack an individual man.

I also think there are other dynamics going on here. I think it's more likely a loss of power somewhere else that causes people to dominate others.

Edited March 5, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

OK.

So some women can be as deviant as some men.

http://digest.bps.org.uk/2015/03/the-disturbing-psychology-of-female.html

Edited March 5, 2015 by feral chile

[feral chile]

Interesting article here:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/05/my-boyfriend-sort-of-raped-me-and-i-didnt-even-break-up-with-him?CMP=fb_gu

"The man and I had been fighting. We fought and then we made love, and as we did he said, “I want to come inside of you.” This was not dirty talk – it was a proposal. I told him not to, I didn’t want him to.

When he finished he said, “I did it, I came inside of you!” Then added, “fuck you” sticking his middle finger up at me. His face, pink with a slick of sweat, was full of fury and glee."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mysteries-love/201502/12-ways-spot-misogynist?utm_source=FacebookPost&utm_medium=FBPost&utm_campaign=FBPost

[feral chile]

I tell you what, i'll do it in a tony-friendly way, to see if there's actually anything in there....

Why is it "interesting", tony?

Is it interesting because it means nothing to you? In which case, why have you posted it?

Or is it interesting because it means something to you?

If it means something to you tony, care to tell us what it means to you?

Why do you have to be so mocking? What does it achieve?

[feral chile]

Isn't part of the rape thing (is it down to men not doing it, or women not wanting to have it done to them) a bit of a red herring? Isn't it because culturally, we (men and women) agree that it's a bad thing? Which is part of the progress that has been made..?

I agree.

Of course, by definition, if men are defined as potential rapists, and they don't rape, then they have chosen not to, because of whatever cultural and legal pressures there are.

But we're getting into a situation now where proof of patriarchy is being claimed for everything. Women valued more? Yes, because men choose to.

So even the fact that women are considered more equal in the UK than in India is still proof of patriarchy.

So now we're getting, 'you're only equal because we allow it'.

And they can't see just how outrageously misogynistic that statement is.

Imagine a white person saying that to a black person.

'The only reason you're not murdered is because us white people choose to let you live'

I'm seriously offended by comments such as these, and wonder at the mentality of the individuals who believe it.

Edited March 5, 2015 by feral chile