What women (don't) want.

[feral chile]

http://www.someecards.com/news/women/gloria-steinem-emma-watson-feminist/

Quote

 

When alerted to the above sentiment raging across the internet, Steinem told the camera, "Perhaps they have an incomplete idea of who women are."

Not only can feminists, and all women, wear "whatever they fucking want," she added that "they should be able to walk down the street nude and be safe."

 

this ^^^

Edited March 7, 2017 by feral chile

[feral chile]

29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

they're commenting on the shoot, rather than her claim of it being a feminist act.

Whether it's positive for her personally for any reason isn't anything of where I'm coming from.

I don't think she did claim it was a feminist act. She just didn't think it had anything to do with feminists.

She said something like feminism isn't women beating other women with a stick.

I said something similar before, about women being critical of other women.

the photo wasn't even sexual.

Edited March 7, 2017 by feral chile

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

My take on it is that judging women on their appearance is anti feminist, whichever way that criticism is.

What are you finding so hard to understand?

No judgement is being made here on appearance. 

Judgement is being made on words and actions.

But, I'll just point out, even a perfect feminist world, people can still look shit.

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, feral chile said:

http://www.someecards.com/news/women/gloria-steinem-emma-watson-feminist/

this ^^^

Again, you and her have missed the point completely.

What might be personally empowering doesn't necessarily forward women as a whole.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, feral chile said:

I don't think she did claim it was a feminist act. She just didn't think it had anything to do with feminists.

She said something like feminism isn't women beating other women with a stick.

I said something similar before, about women being critical of other women.

the photo wasn't even sexual.

 

 

Quote

“It just always reveals to me how many misconceptions and what a misunderstanding there is about what feminism is,” she said.

“Feminism is about giving women choice. Feminism is not a stick with which to beat other women with. It’s about freedom, it’s about liberation, it’s about equality. I really don’t know what my tits have to do with it. It’s very confusing.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/mar/05/emma-watson-vanity-fair-cover-feminism

She doesn't get it at all. Feminism isn't about doing what you want - that's called selfishness - it's about doing what is good for women as a whole.

Edited March 8, 2017 by eFestivals

[bunique]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/mar/05/emma-watson-vanity-fair-cover-feminism

She doesn't get it at all. Feminism isn't about doing what you want - that's called selfishness - it's about doing what is good for women as a whole.

Does this apply to all women Neil or only those in the public eye? THat is an extraordinarily high standard to hold women to, as it would be to hold all men to. It also assumes that what is good for one woman is good for all whereas I think modern feminism leans much more towards personal choice

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, bunique said:

Does this apply to all women Neil or only those in the public eye? THat is an extraordinarily high standard to hold women to, as it would be to hold all men to. It also assumes that what is good for one woman is good for all whereas I think modern feminism leans much more towards personal choice

I'm not trying to hold anyone to any standard. i'm merely pointing out that Watson has completely missed the point about feminism.

It's not about 'choice', it's about 'the right choice' (whatever that might be).

[feral chile]

Happy International Women's Day

 

 

[feral chile]

8 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I'm not trying to hold anyone to any standard. i'm merely pointing out that Watson has completely missed the point about feminism.

It's not about 'choice', it's about 'the right choice' (whatever that might be).

Right choice for whom?

[feral chile]

9 hours ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

Unless he felt that would be rude. Or was scared of looking soft in front of his mates. He still may have felt uncomfortable and you wouldn't have known until it was too late.

Some young lads feel really uncomfortable around groups of drunk women of a certain age being sexual, a lot of whom act like that cos they just presume all men would be fine as they're always up for it. 

Reverse what you did and imagine a 50 odd year old dirty old man walking up to a 21 year old female stranger and asking her to untie her her so he could run his fingers through it for a mate. 

Some women seem to presume that cos some men are tw#ts, all men would love them to react that way towards them. 

I didn't say it was right.

He wasn't being accosted by a group of drunken women, though. my friend and I were sat out of the way at a table. The place was huge - it was a big old church originally. And NOTHING was done without permission.

There was no suggestion that there was anything sexual involved, and loving long hair isn't about sex, it's about subculture. I was pretty sure he understood that, and he reacted in a way to confirm my belief.

And probably because he knew full well  this was not a sexual situation. you're talking heavy metal rockers here. They get the whole hair thing.

(I know you meant hair, but you've actually typed untie her her).

I think you're imagining something way more in his face than this was.

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by feral chile

[feral chile]

11 hours ago, eFestivals said:

Again, you and her have missed the point completely.

What might be personally empowering doesn't necessarily forward women as a whole.

Did you listen to what Gloria Steinem said? Do you know who she is?

Edited March 8, 2017 by feral chile

[feral chile]

9 hours ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

 

Some women seem to presume that cos some men are tw#ts, all men would love them to react that way towards them. 

Some women might, but I don't. I tend to believe that men who behave badly towards women often do it to look good to their mates, so the whole male stallion thing is a myth.

[feral chile]

11 hours ago, eFestivals said:

What are you finding so hard to understand?

No judgement is being made here on appearance. 

Judgement is being made on words and actions.

But, I'll just point out, even a perfect feminist world, people can still look shit.

what words and actions?

she's posed for a photo that shows nothing more than she'd show in a low cut dress.

And has stated that she's bemused as to what this has to do with feminism, in her opinion feminism is about choice, and she's been criticised for having boobs.

Watson told the BBC she was “confused” by the furore and proceeded to school her critics, saying: “I really don’t know what my tits have to do with it.”

“Feminism is about giving women choice. Feminism is not a stick with which to beat other women with. It’s about freedom, it’s about liberation, it’s about equality.”

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-39170490

 

[feral chile]

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 6:00 PM, eFestivals said:

except of course you're being utterly sexist, by believing all men are slags.

Where have I said men were slags?

You clearly don't get the hair thing, it's got nothing to do with sex. it's got everything to do with identity though.

You and scruffylovemonster are projecting male attitudes onto this.

you're not thinking of it from a female point of view at all. neither my friend or I were interested in anything physical with this guy. I'm positive he was well aware of this, because he was part of the same scene as us.

It was very much in the same sentiment as someone wearing a nice outfit, and giving someone a twirl. Or asking someone to repeat a cool dance move.

You're reading way too much sexual innuendo into it. We just thought it was way cooler for his hair to be loose.

Edited March 8, 2017 by feral chile

[feral chile]

23 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I agree.

The question is...? Is she hurting anyone else?

She's certainly manipulating, manipulating men. And guess what it's called if that's gender-reversed?

advertisements?

[feral chile]

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 2:19 PM, eFestivals said:

Yep, that's one of very many angles on it, of which almost none of them support the idea of her being a feminist.

'Choice' is only of relevance if the choice she makes supports or promotes feminism.

yeah and democratic choice is only of relevance if the choice we make is in the public interest. or is the right choice.

But you don't think that, do you?

I don't think feminism has the right to dictate how women look or behave, otherwise it's self contradictory.

You're stuck in past versions of feminism, when feminists were a bit patronising, and thought they knew what all women should want.

feminism's moved on since then.

Feminism is about equality. Not all women are feminists, but feminism supports all women's right of self determination.

[eFestivals]

55 minutes ago, feral chile said:

Right choice for whom?

for women. Feminism is a women's movement, didn't you know?

And it's not about giving free reign to all choices any individual woman might want to make, as far as everything I've ever read about it goes.

[feral chile]

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 3:49 PM, russycarps said:

Sadly she's been hoisted by her own petard. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it all, her words about beyonce have come back to haunt her and this whole incident does no-one any favours, least of all the issue in hand.

Things have as usual descended into a woman-on-woman catfight and men just stand on the sidelines roaring with laughter at the self-harm women inflict upon themselves time after time when it comes to feminism.

The feminist battle wont be won by the likes of emma watson anyway.

 

her words about beyonce have been taken out of context, you mean.

http://www.look.co.uk/fashion/emma-watson-beyonce-feminism-tweet-578257

“On the one hand she is putting herself in the category of a feminist, this very strong woman… but then the camera, it felt very male, such a male voyeuristic experience of her…”

“…[Beyonce] does make it clear that she’s performing for him. And the fact she wasn’t doing it for a label, she was doing it for herself and the control that she has directing it and putting it out there, I agree is making her sexually empowering because it is her choice. I would say you do get a sense of, “I can be feminist, I can be intellectual, I can be all these other things, but I can also be ok with my femininity and being pretty and with all these things that I thought would negate my message or negate what I am about.”
 

[eFestivals]

30 minutes ago, feral chile said:

advertisements?

sexism.

[eFestivals]

36 minutes ago, feral chile said:

You and scruffylovemonster are projecting male attitudes onto this

Hmmmm,.....

If you went back thru your own words and swapped the gender of what you said and thought of yourself as man saying them about women (rather than a women saying them about men), you'll probably make your head explode.

You should try it, you might learn something useful.

[lost]

56 minutes ago, feral chile said:

There was no suggestion that there was anything sexual involved, and loving long hair isn't about sex, it's about subculture. I was pretty sure he understood that, and he reacted in a way to confirm my belief.

And probably because he knew full well  this was not a sexual situation. you're talking heavy metal rockers here. They get the whole hair thing.

(I know you meant hair, but you've actually typed untie her her).

I think you're imagining something way more in his face than this was.

 

Sadly if the bloke was doing it for cultural reasons he'd still get labeled sleazy at best and at worst a complaint put in either to a bouncer or the police.

I'm starting to realise being a middle aged man around the office with 20 something year old girls is a complete nightmare. I've seen two colleages labled as sleaze bags for "staring"  one of which was by a girl who always goes around the office touching people on the sholders and such when she comes up behind them to get their attention. One was adamant he was simply looking up as someone walked past.

I think its sadly one of the double standards which is never going to go away because on some level men and women are different. Imagine the film big with Tom Hanks and if a 8 year old girl was made big and then got fucked by a middle aged businessman. It would of never been made.

[bunique]

I'm actually with the menfolk on the hair thing Feral, sorry!

[feral chile]

12 minutes ago, bunique said:

I'm actually with the menfolk on the hair thing Feral, sorry!

Maybe, it might have been non sexual and relatively benign but it was my version of empowerment/control.

pissed off at getting groped by a colleague from work, and looking to get even with the world/regain a sense of control, perhaps.

I can truthfully say there was nothing sexual in it, but it was definitely a power trip.

It was to ease my sense of vulnerability and helplessness.

Edited March 8, 2017 by feral chile

[feral chile]

15 minutes ago, lost said:

Sadly if the bloke was doing it for cultural reasons he'd still get labeled sleazy at best and at worst a complaint put in either to a bouncer or the police.

I'm starting to realise being a middle aged man around the office with 20 something year old girls is a complete nightmare. I've seen two colleages labled as sleaze bags for "staring"  one of which was by a girl who always goes around the office touching people on the sholders and such when she comes up behind them to get their attention. One was adamant he was simply looking up as someone walked past.

I think its sadly one of the double standards which is never going to go away because on some level men and women are different. Imagine the film big with Tom Hanks and if a 8 year old girl was made big and then got fucked by a middle aged businessman. It would of never been made.

I think he'd get labelled patronising rather than sleazy, if he was commenting  on hairstyles.

and thinking about it, that's probably what I was intending to be.

[feral chile]

And office politics are horrendous. I've had to forewarn my male colleague opposite me that I'm going to crawl under my desk to retrieve a pen, and he's done likewise

The double standards go much further though. there's a young man in my office who admits using his good looks to get through interviews. if a woman admitted that, there'd be hell to pay.