General Election 2015

[eFestivals]

I thought this should have it's own thread.

So, yesterday the tories made a big policy announcement of "no cuts to education" .... which immediately went badly tits up when no one fell for it, and Cameron had to admit that it was a cut in real terms (estimated by the IFS as approximately a 10% cut in education spending).

A 10% cut in the spend on your child, so that Dave can give his already-rich mates a £7bn tax cut.

Let's say it how it is.

[gary1979666]

Heard Hague talking about the English vote for English law ting this morning - seems a bit of a halfway house. So an English law needs a majority of English MPs to vote for it, but if the Scotish/Irish/Welsh MPs don't like it then they can combine with the opposition and overturn it. Seems a bit silly.

I suppose if Labour don't have a majority in England come May, then it means the Torys can stop them putting through, but still seems neither nowt nor something.

[eFestivals]

Heard Hague talking about the English vote for English law ting this morning - seems a bit of a halfway house. So an English law needs a majority of English MPs to vote for it, but if the Scotish/Irish/Welsh MPs don't like it then they can combine with the opposition and overturn it. Seems a bit silly.

I suppose if Labour don't have a majority in England come May, then it means the Torys can stop them putting through, but still seems neither nowt nor something.

it's all a scam to avoid an English Parliament (not that it's something I think is a good thing overall*), because that would have to have a version of PR (same as Scotland and Wales), which would see the tories out of power forever.

The tory proposals aren't about giving England power over English laws, it's about giving the tories power over English laws.

(* within the devolved system we have, there should be an English Parliament. But I think different policies for different regions will always be an arse on a small island)

[kaosmark2]

There's no point in devolving to England. What's good for Yorkshire isn't good for Cornwall, or Bristol, or Manchester. Hell, what's good for the rich areas of London isn't good for the poor areas, etc. etc. If you're going to devolve on a legal basis beyond "UK", you have to either devolve it to the county level, or create another tier to devolve to.

[gary1979666]

Personally would rather see one UK parlaiment - Holyrood and the like seem to be just a layer of middle management, which cost a lot of money.

If anything, we need more unity and working together. There's been more and more of a push bring Europe together, but within the UK, seems like we're pulling further apart.

Re Neil's point, of course the Tories have self interest with EVEL, also, could be a vote winner for English voters. But it's the same self interest that stop the other parties agreeing to the redrawing of the boundries. From a power hungriness POV, they're all at it.

[grumpyhack]

One of the dangers of too many devolved powers is that we end up with an even more fragmented system - the postcode lottery writ large.

If, for example, pensions are higher in one part of the country but school education provision is significantly better in another and unemployment benefits also differ then, depending on your age or circumstance people could be crying foul.

We already have multiple tiers of government/administration. If you look at school education you've got national government, regional government in Wales and Scotland, local authority administration below that. All the tiers spend a large amount of time consulting each other and sending position papers.

It can get a bit like shuffling deckchairs on The Titanic.

[kaosmark2]

TBH, I'd scrap county councils and create another tier, also scrapping Holyrood and the Welsh parliament. But yes, I don't support the creation of yet another tier. This "national devolution by parts made for power-gains" though is the worst.

[eFestivals]

There's no point in devolving to England. What's good for Yorkshire isn't good for Cornwall, or Bristol, or Manchester. Hell, what's good for the rich areas of London isn't good for the poor areas, etc. etc. If you're going to devolve on a legal basis beyond "UK", you have to either devolve it to the county level, or create another tier to devolve to.

1. there's no demand in England for breaking up England into chunks like that. That's what Scotland wants, to try and knobble England for Scotland's benefit.

2. if it were broken up into chunks, it'd be a disaster. The south east is too much of a part of London, ultimately.

3. go ahead, if you want London/South East to keep its money to the disadvantage of the rest of the UK.

[eFestivals]

Re Neil's point, of course the Tories have self interest with EVEL, also, could be a vote winner for English voters. But it's the same self interest that stop the other parties agreeing to the redrawing of the boundries. From a power hungriness POV, they're all at it.

The other parties have different ideas, true. And some of those ideas are similarly self-supporting, true.

And yet the ideas of those other parties make better logical sense, for where the UK is now and how to best make the devolved system we have work into the future.

The tories version essentially states that Brown will be the last Scottish leader of the UK, which only ensures no UK at so0me point in the future.

[eFestivals]

One of the dangers of too many devolved powers is that we end up with an even more fragmented system - the postcode lottery writ large.

THIS!!! EXACTLY THIS!!!

For example, did people in Scotland vote to have a worse NHS than England? Nope, and yet it's got one.

[the_hedge]

This election is going to be close one again but the funny thing is if Labour had voted the right brother in I think they would have won it easy.

It shouldn't be about personality but Ed will lose so many votes just because he comes across as a wet fish...

[gary1979666]

The tories version essentially states that Brown will be the last Scottish leader of the UK, which only ensures no UK at so0me point in the future.

Gove.........ok, no.

[eFestivals]

This election is going to be close one again but the funny thing is if Labour had voted the right brother in I think they would have won it easy.

It shouldn't be about personality but Ed will lose so many votes just because he comes across as a wet fish...

I completely agree - and yet David Miliband represents everything bad about Blair, and plenty of those who claim to hate what Blair did would have happily voted for David but won't vote for Ed.

Which only, yet again, gets to demonstrate how fucked up the public's take on politics is.

[eFestivals]

Gove.........ok, no.

he's an English MP. My comment was about Scottish MPs, not Scottish people.

But anyway, Salmond ripped up Gove's passport and revoked his citizenship, cos he has to keep up the pretence that there's no tories in Scotland (apart from the SNP voters, of course - 'self-determination' is as Thatcherite as it gets).

Edited February 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[gary1979666]

This election is going to be close one again but the funny thing is if Labour had voted the right brother in I think they would have won it easy.

It shouldn't be about personality but Ed will lose so many votes just because he comes across as a wet fish...

But in a way it should to a point. If you think the PM has to build relationships throughout the Europe and the rest of the world. If we can't take Ed seriously, what do you think Juncker, Obama, Putin, etc going to think.

My wife is normally a labour voter, but she really can't bring herself to do so, as Miliband as PM is such a horrendous thought.

Love him or hate him, Cameron looks and sounds the part. The content you might not agree with, but he looks more prime-ministerial. Not saying that's a reason to vote for him, but I imagine with some, it'll play a part.

[gary1979666]

he's an English MP. My comment was about Scottish MPs, not Scottish people.

But anyway, Salmond ripped up Gove's passport and revoked his citizenship, cos he has to keep up the pretence that there's no tories in Scotland (apart from the SNP voters, of course - 'self-determination' is as Thatcherite as it gets).

And apart from the 1 in 6 people who voted for them in Scotland at the last GE. I know they're way less popular in Scotland, but the independence thread yessers banged on about only 1 MP.

Yet just over 1 in 5 of the UK voted for the Liberals and we have Deputy PM Clegg.

[eFestivals]

And apart from the 1 in 6 people who voted for them in Scotland at the last GE. I know they're way less popular in Scotland, but the independence thread yessers banged on about only 1 MP.

Yet just over 1 in 5 of the UK voted for the Liberals and we have Deputy PM Clegg.

I'm pointing out that the SNP are tories in disguise. The "left leaning" idea that gets associated with them isn't something that will hold.

They're a party that are happy for the Scottish electorate to suck up that 'left leaning' idea, and yet the SNP plans (both of the indy version, and the current UK GE version) will require greater cuts in Scottish public spending than even the tories plan to do, but this goes unsaid.

As for any Labour/SNP coalition, that's a non-starter unless Labour have decided this will be their last term in govt. It's one thing having a deputy PM whose got 20+% of the vote from all corners of (mainland) UK, but another thing entirely if it's from less than 4% of the vote from just one UK region and where that region has disproportionate representation anyway.

[krisskross]

THIS!!! EXACTLY THIS!!!

For example, did people in Scotland vote to have a worse NHS than England? Nope, and yet it's got one.

Err, the NHS is not worse in Scotland than in England. Its made quite an improvement since devolution.

Its not like you to put ideology ahead of the facts...

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/sites/files/nuffield/publication/revised_four_countries_summary.pdf

[eFestivals]

Err, the NHS is not worse in Scotland than in England.

it depends what measure. A measure out today fits what I said.

I used the NHS as my example of the greater 'postcode lottery' that devolution creates precisely because it's today's news.

Edited February 3, 2015 by eFestivals

[kaosmark2]

This election is going to be close one again but the funny thing is if Labour had voted the right brother in I think they would have won it easy.

It shouldn't be about personality but Ed will lose so many votes just because he comes across as a wet fish...

The pro-war brother? The pro-ID card brother? The brother who wanted less regulation of banks?

[eFestivals]

The pro-war brother? The pro-ID card brother? The brother who wanted less regulation of banks?

yep, that brother. Like it or not, he'd have picked up more votes than Ed will.

And that only goes to prove how little the electorate are paying attention, and is the reason why we get shit govts.

[gary1979666]

Sadly for Ed, his price freeze is going to back fire too. Heard that (surprisingly!) the energy companies haven't passed on all the savings from the drop in prices.....if there's a freeze on the horizon, who could blame them!

[eFestivals]

Sadly for Ed, his price freeze is going to back fire too. Heard that (surprisingly!) the energy companies haven't passed on all the savings from the drop in prices.....if there's a freeze on the horizon, who could blame them!

Yeah, cos just Ed turned them into greedy c**ts.

He came up with that policy cos they were already greedy c**ts.

But as I said at the time he announced that policy, it was a daft thing to do. He's going to pay for it, in the minds of the stupid.

[gary1979666]

To be fair, who's to say they would have reduced their prices further if the price freeze hadn't been announced. But all he's done is give them a reason to justify being greedy c**ts! And a stick for the Tories to beat them with - though surprised not to have seen that happen....yet.

[krisskross]

it depends what measure. A measure out today fits what I said.

I used the NHS as my example of the greater 'postcode lottery' that devolution creates precisely because it's today's news.

That would be based on this report.

http://www.healthpowerhouse.com/files/EHCI_2014/EHCI_2014_report.pdf

Which says the difference is mainly down to a BBC news article!?! That sounds like its a completely quantitative difference...