General Election 2015

[eFestivals]

The beeb's claim is wrong.

and therefore utter bull.

Thank you for confirming what I said. I wonder why you denied it in the first place.

Oh, it's because anything which undermines anything of the SNP isn't allowed. Sorry that I forgot.

As you're in a mood for admitting things, was Salmond and the SNP corrupted by Murdoch, or not?

Edited May 15, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

As in political stance and sense.

I think she wouldn't actually just be Balls' puppet, but whether the electorate would believe that is an entirely different issue,.

You're getting there.

fiver on her taking the leadership

Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if she does.

But that'll mean another tory victory, and a definitely-dead-forever Labour Party with no opposition to the tories.

I heard someone suggest that the best idea for Labour would be to get Alan Johnson to take the job for around 2 years with a clear intention to have the role temporarily (and perhaps he'd agree to do that?), while the party re-groups, and any new major-faces have a chance to come to the fore in the meantime.

Given that all of the old faces are compromised in one way or another in the eyes of a big part of the electorate, that seems like the best idea I've heard for them to have a fast-ish recovery. I can't see any of the current leadership candidates winning next time around.

[eFestivals]

why, because you said so? to be honest, I don't know what the bacon sandwich reference means.

The bacon sandwich is about Ed eating a bacon sandwich. Where he supposedly looked wierd.

In much the same you've commented about how he's looked, like that's the most important thing.

And as I've said, we all see things the way we want to see them.

No, I voted to try and save the cat. You voted to let the cat run away.

Nope, i voted to build the facilities the cat needs for it to be saved, while you're still thinking they can be wished into existence.

[eFestivals]

It obviously had an impact on you. It might seem odd, or there might be a need for me to be ever so special, but I'm not fussed whether someone can look good eating a bacon sandwich. Weird, I know.

It had an impact on me only because people kept going on about how Ed looked weird - you included - and the bacon sandwich was part of that narrative.

Back on planet earth, it's the policies which matter.

And you can't implemet even the first greening policy when you start with £245Bn spending commitments that are unfunded.

Edited May 15, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

if those things affect you, fine. You're not alone

I'm not the one who's been going around commenting on how he looks. Derrr!

You're the one who commented on how he looked, as tho it meant something towards how he might have governed.

Edited May 15, 2015 by eFestivals

[feral chile]

Saying that, I can't hear Cameron's voice without getting verbally abusive, and I'm not usually a ranter.

[LJS]

I'm not the one who's been going around commenting on how he looks. Derrr!

You're the one who commented on how he looked, as tho it meant something towards how he might have governed.

I don't think there was much on here suggesting that Ed perhaps looking a tad on the odd side made him unfit to be PM. It is certainly not a view I would subscribe to.

It is, however a sad fact that it made it easy for the right wing press to take the piss, which probably undermined the leadership credentials he had. That is wrong & regrettable. But probably unavoidable.

I don't sense a great deal of enthusiasm for any potential leaders On here.

Anyone excite you guys?

[Rose-Colored Boy]

I don't think there was much on here suggesting that Ed perhaps looking a tad on the odd side made him unfit to be PM. It is certainly not a view I would subscribe to.

It is, however a sad fact that it made it easy for the right wing press to take the piss, which probably undermined the leadership credentials he had. That is wrong & regrettable. But probably unavoidable.

I don't sense a great deal of enthusiasm for any potential leaders On here.

Anyone excite you guys?

Been backing Chuka for months. Dan would've been my second choice. Not been a good week. Hoping either Dan or Alan Johnson change their minds atm, all the remaining declared candidates are either too timid, tainted by association with others or too low profile IMO.

[eFestivals]

Been backing Chuka for months. Dan would've been my second choice. Not been a good week. Hoping either Dan or Alan Johnson change their minds atm, all the remaining declared candidates are either too timid, tainted by association with others or too low profile IMO.

because the 'clean' newbies need some time to gain some profile, a temporary leader for a couple of years woud be perfect.

There's naff all mileage in the leading names. If one of them does happen to win a GE, it'll be because the other guy has lost it, not because they've won it.

[LJS]

because the 'clean' newbies need some time to gain some profile, a temporary leader for a couple of years woud be perfect.

There's naff all mileage in the leading names. If one of them does happen to win a GE, it'll be because the other guy has lost it, not because they've won it.

God this hurts

I agree with Neil

There I said it

[LJS]

and therefore utter bull.

Thank you for confirming what I said. I wonder why you denied it in the first place.

I didn't I pointed out how the BBC could have been more accurate

Oh, it's because anything which undermines anything of the SNP isn't allowed. Sorry that I forgot.

As you're in a mood for admitting things, was Salmond and the SNP corrupted by Murdoch, or not?

Murdoch we have covered ad infinitum. Now where is your evidence that the SNP were corrupted?

I note you omitted to reply to the second part of the post where I said...

"Is it utter bull? If it is ,your repeated claim that the Snp got 49% of the vote is utter bull. "

the SNP got 49.97% of the vote by my reckoning. Rounding it to whole numbers gives 50%. Rounding it to 1 decimal place gives 50.0%

so 49% is wrong & by your logic, utter Bull.

Thank you for your admission that you have been talking utter Bull, Neil.

[pink_triangle]

I don't think there was much on here suggesting that Ed perhaps looking a tad on the odd side made him unfit to be PM. It is certainly not a view I would subscribe to.

It is, however a sad fact that it made it easy for the right wing press to take the piss, which probably undermined the leadership credentials he had. That is wrong & regrettable. But probably unavoidable.

I don't sense a great deal of enthusiasm for any potential leaders On here.

Anyone excite you guys?

I would argue that many of our recent pms didn't excite people when they became leader of their parties. Even the higher profile contenders like Cooper, I'm not really sure what they stand for. I guess its now time for them to sell themselves.

[pink_triangle]

I wouldn't of thought so...

I think they are both shit but she would be worse...

The only advantage I think Cooper has over Burnham is the fact she's female. I think the likes of Cameron and Osborne with their natural posh bully attitude, feel more uneasy debating woman.

[micawber]

Whatever their views, it is only a natural communicator who can win an election. Miliband was coached and it showed. Cooper comes across as whiney. Umunna would have been good. Hunt is a pale imitation of Boris. Don't see this as an endorsement. It's just marking their card before diving into the substance.

[pink_triangle]

. Hunt is a pale imitation of Boris.

Cameron is a pale imitation of Blair, that didn't work out too bad for him!

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Cameron is a pale imitation of Blair, that didn't work out too bad for him!

Hmmm. Post-crash, the 2010 election was basically an open goal for the Tories, I don't think a better leader would've needed LD backing to gain a majority. And his win this time was largely down to the failings of other parties. So not sure about that.

[pink_triangle]

Hmmm. Post-crash, the 2010 election was basically an open goal for the Tories, I don't think a better leader would've needed LD backing to gain a majority. And his win this time was largely down to the failings of other parties. So not sure about that.

He got himself into the position to take advantage of the open goal by winning the conservative leadership. His ambition was to become PM and unlike most who have that ambition he achieved that aim. He is very much Blair lite in my view, but I bet he is pretty happy how his career has turned out.

[viberunner]

The bacon sandwich is about Ed eating a bacon sandwich. Where he supposedly looked wierd.

There's no supposedly about it. Then again there isn't a food on god's green earth that could have made him appear normal.

Not that it should matter politically, of course, but he has the demeanor of a newly born foal trying to climb a ladder.

[viberunner]

The only advantage I think Cooper has over Burnham is the fact she's female.

Also, she did not ignore 81 requests for a public inquiry into the Mid Staffs NHS Trust (including nearly two dozen from MPs) where people, in the thousands numbers, were permitted to die unnecessarily - sometimes starving to death in their own filth.

Yet Andrew Lansley was able to order a public inquiry within a month of taking office (the Francis Inquiry).

How much you think continued criticism of him for overseeing those death and, arguably, doing sweet fuck all about it during the crisis is one thing, but during a future election campaign where the NHS always takes front & centre at some point the Tories have some heavy munitions to lob at him.

And how is he going to respond? Be slick and bat it away and appear aloof? Fess up, say sorry, and appear lethally incompetent?

You think Burnham can win because you see the things you like about him and you haven't seen the effects of 4 weeks of Tory press campaigning on Mid Staffs. The odd article, yes. But not election saturation press.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

Week two begins.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/16/george-osborne-july-budget-austerity-conservatives-deficit

YAY

[kaosmark2]

There's no supposedly about it. Then again there isn't a food on god's green earth that could have made him appear normal.

Not that it should matter politically, of course, but he has the demeanor of a newly born foal trying to climb a ladder.

How weird do you think it looks to eat a hot dog with a knife and fork?

[bunique]

Absolutely nowhere in the Francis report are the allegations about "thousands of deaths" substantiated. The gent on whose research those unfounded allegations are based has himself come out and said the statistics have been completely misunderstood and misused, iirc. Tonight we watched paediatrics close down at Mid Staffs (now County Hospital), having already lost 24hr A&E, emergency surgery and consultant led maternity. Next month haematology and oncology go. Parents of chronically sick and disabled children have lost their open access to the hospital off the back of what appears to be a concerted campaign by the govt to shut the whole place down bit by bit.

[bunique]

In fact, Burnham predicted that exact outcome - http://www.expressandstar.com/news/health/2013/11/30/i-have-no-regrets-over-scandal-says-andy-burnham/

I'm not going to deny that there were institutional failings at Mid Staffs, but the oft quoted figures are wrong and the impact of the 'Cure' campaign has been devastating for recruitment and thus for those who have lost services they relied on on their local community. And the hospital/trust taking the reins (and now in charge of County Hospital) is breaking under the strain and was consistently one of the worst performing re: A&E over winter.

On the "unnecessary deaths":

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805

There's something like 500 troops arriving with their families to settle in Stafford over the summer, to a shell of a hospital. Sorry for the rant but the reporting on the whole Mid-Staffs "crisis" has left a lot to be desired and the perception of the public at large used as a stick to beat the hospital with. Several wards now stand completely empty. Was that the intention of the Francis report? Has it achieved any of it's stated aims/recommendations?!

Edited May 16, 2015 by bunique

[viberunner]

On the "unnecessary deaths":

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/francis_many_deaths_unnecessarily_at_mid_staffs-28805

It says you can only have an individual review, per each case, to see if it was avoidable. Which of course is a logistical impossibility.

But my point is not to go over the inquiry and the deaths (does the word "uncountable" sound better than any single figure?) the point is it will be used - rightly and wrongly - by the Tory press during an election.

That's some heavy baggage he has. It may or may not be a fair burden, but it is there.

[viberunner]

How weird do you think it looks to eat a hot dog with a knife and fork?

It should have looked a lot weirder than he made it look.

I think if Miliband tried to eat a hotdog with a knife and fork he'd stab himself in the eye.