General Election 2015

[russycarps]

Oh it's hypocritical, but find my a political party that isn't.

Well I would argue that the snp supporters in this thread are much more hypocritical than the rest of us.

See that fellow above saying because she is openly gay, that somehow makes her a more suitable MP than a middle aged career politician.

It amuses me that they cannot say a single bad word against any aspect of the snp, even something as absurd as this! They are truly a brainwashed cult.

[eFestivals]

Carmichael leaked it, nice for him to come clean after re-election! He admitted as well it is not a correct statement as well.

Very very naughty. Gotta say I'm surprised it was a politician and not a civil servant. He should be barred from public office.

While people have said what they've said about what they've said, no one is disputing that the memo was accurately recorded by whichever Scottish Office civil servant wrote it ... meaning that someone in the French Embassy told that story to the Scottish Office. The question is: why? Were they deliberately feeding bullshit, or was that what the French understood the unspoken subtext of the conversation with Sturgeon?

[LJS]

Very very naughty. Gotta say I'm surprised it was a politician and not a civil servant. He should be barred from public office.

While people have said what they've said about what they've said, no one is disputing that the memo was accurately recorded by whichever Scottish Office civil servant wrote it ... meaning that someone in the French Embassy told that story to the Scottish Office. The question is: why? Were they deliberately feeding bullshit, or was that what the French understood the unspoken subtext of the conversation with Sturgeon?

The civil servant who wrote it doubted its accuracy!

the mp who leaked it has acknowledged it was inaccurate!

None of this gets in the way of Neil's deranged SNP hatred. It discredits the snp so it must be true.

Edited May 22, 2015 by LJS

[LJS]

Well I would argue that the snp supporters in this thread are much more hypocritical than the rest of us.

See that fellow above saying because she is openly gay, that somehow makes her a more suitable MP than a middle aged career politician.

It amuses me that they cannot say a single bad word against any aspect of the snp, even something as absurd as this! They are truly a brainwashed cult.

There is absolutely nothing absurd about having younger mp's. It would be absurd if there weren't. Our legislature should be broadly representative of the population at large.

[feral chile]

it's a big deal when on the one hand people say labour is full of politicians with no real-world experience, then they vote for a 20 year old with no real-world experience, and also a severe lack of actual life experience.

It's hypocritical, and laughable.

It depends what they mean - if they mean we need politicians from al walks of life, then I agree with them.

Well I would argue that the snp supporters in this thread are much more hypocritical than the rest of us.

See that fellow above saying because she is openly gay, that somehow makes her a more suitable MP than a middle aged career politician.

It amuses me that they cannot say a single bad word against any aspect of the snp, even something as absurd as this! They are truly a brainwashed cult.

Was that my comment you were replying to? If all Westminster was full of 20 year old gay women, I'd agree. But it's not. They should be represented though, that's what diversity's all about.

If you were referring to me, I'm Welsh, so not technically an snp supporter.

[Stash]

The civil servant who wrote it doubted its accuracy!

Indeed...

The Ambassador also had a truncated meeting with the FM (FM running late after a busy Thursday…). Discussion appears to have focused mainly on the political situation, with the FM stating that she wouldn’t want a formal coalition with Labour; that the SNP would almost certainly have a large number of seats; that she had no idea ‘what kind of mischief’ Alex Salmond would get up to; and confessed that she’d rather see David Cameron remain as PM (and didn’t see Ed Miliband as PM material). I have to admit that I’m not sure that the FM’s tongue would be quite so loose on that kind of thing in a meeting like that, so it might well be a case of something being lost in translation.

But it has been confirmed today that this is an accurate version of the memo. It seems very doubtful that the civil servant did anything but faithfully report the conversation with the consul general, even to the point of highlighting how unusual it was to hear it.

Either PAC was having some fun, which seems unlikely, or this genuinely was the impression that Sylvie Bermann got from Sturgeon & communicated to PAC

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Funnily enough there is already plenty of chat on-line from delightful snips changing the story and suggesting that Carmichael made the whole thing up himself! Who'd have thunk it!

Also funny that so many people were very convinced at the time that the leak came from the conservatives.

[pink_triangle]

There is absolutely nothing absurd about having younger mp's. It would be absurd if there weren't. Our legislature should be broadly representative of the population at large.

While I agree there's nothing wrong with it. I think you learn a lot between the ages of 20 and 30. I still think it's ideal if an mp has gained some additional life experience.

[feral chile]

While I agree there's nothing wrong with it. I think you learn a lot between the ages of 20 and 30. I still think it's ideal if an mp has gained some additional life experience.

People mature at different ages, some have more sheltered lives than others etc.

I think we should try to represent as many different interests as possible. It's difficult enough as it is to represent such a diverse UK, it could add a new dimension.

[pink_triangle]

People mature at different ages, some have more sheltered lives than others etc.

I think we should try to represent as many different interests as possible. It's difficult enough as it is to represent such a diverse UK, it could add a new dimension.

Your right, but if I'm looking for my ideal candidate, they are probably 30 plus. This isn't anti snp, I think Labour have a 26 year old. I agree we need a variety of opinions (even if most do as told by whips) but just think some extra life experience doesn't harm.

[Comfy Bean]

So what you're saying is, that meeting the subordinate who is an official part of the press and will conduct far more mild deals, is worse than meeting the head honcho?

Erm...No. What I`m saying was in the post you quoted which was.....

"Ed Miliband, David Cameron and Nick Clegg have all met Rebekah Brooks more often in one year — including at the oyster and champagne garden parties — than Alex Salmond has in four years."

I am not defending Salmonds relationship with, or admiration for, Murdoch but I suspect the last part of the quote above may also be true

[Comfy Bean]

Funny, Salmond isn't meeting those responsible for trident renewal and encouraging their business in Scotland. They're a much bigger employer in Scotland than Newscorp.

Slightly different point but when you mention Salmond and Trident....I see the SNP have already secured time ( next Thursday ) to get the Trident debate started at Westminster. Whats the chances of some Labour or Libs MP`s voting against it`s renewal when the time comes ? Salmond will make sure this is right in the public eye on Thursday. If nothing else the SNP will ensure the Tories don`t just sneak all this through with a minimum of fuss. I know NS has already spoken at the CND rally in Glasgow and expect plenty more of that to come right across the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/21/snp-trident-debate-debate-on-trident-safety

[Comfy Bean]

it's a big deal when on the one hand people say labour is full of politicians with no real-world experience, then they vote for a 20 year old with no real-world experience, and also a severe lack of actual life experience.

It's hypocritical, and laughable.

Who are these " people " who said Labour is full of politicians with no real-world experience ? Serious question. I honestly don`t remember anyone saying that. Fair enough if you can quote them up - please do. Neil telling you doesn`t count by the way

Mhairi Black who you have described as a " joke " and " laughable " as well as describing the folks in Paisley who voted for her as " drones " and who has also wrongly been accused on here today of never having had a job voted for what she believes in. Not only that she has decided to stand up for the people of Paisley. She first got into politics when marching against the Irag war.

You mention hypocritical in your post taking the piss out of her ( a long term oxfam volunteer ). Can you remind us what you did when you had the opportunity to cast a vote for what you believe in ?

[Comfy Bean]

Well I would argue that the snp supporters in this thread are much more hypocritical than the rest of us.

You are entitled to your opinion Russ. I`m giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you know what hypocritical means

Who are " us " by the way ?

Seems to be a broad church on here. People voting for a few different parties and the odd one who didn`t vote at all I`m sure.

Edited May 22, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[Comfy Bean]

Your right, but if I'm looking for my ideal candidate, they are probably 30 plus. This isn't anti snp, I think Labour have a 26 year old. I agree we need a variety of opinions (even if most do as told by whips) but just think some extra life experience doesn't harm.

Fair comment PT. Fortunately she will have a relatively large team round about her. I`m pretty sure that almost everyone on here will wish her every success and not wish to see her fail. The " she is a joke " patter earlier was quite silly in my view.

[Comfy Bean]

Wanted to cherry pick some of Mr Levesons report. These are all taken from Neil`s post earlier today so don`t blame me if his Lordship ( Leveson not Neil ) is mis-quoted.

I am in no way defending Salmond`s relationship with Murdoch. I have only ever voted for 2 parties in my life and can only ever see myself voting for 1 of the 2 of them in the future ( although maybe the Greens ). Salmond has described Murdoch as " remarkable " and Blair went on to become the godfather. Sad scenes but Salmond has moved on to fight for the greater good and I don`t know what Blair is up to but I suspect it`s not good. So far Salmond gets a free pass on illegal wars ( in my opinionj ) and Leveson says some nice things about him ( below ).

Lord Justice Leveson found no evidence of a deal toTRADE NewsCorp newspaper support for the SNP in exchange for Scottish Government support for the BSkyB bid

Ultimately, Mr Salmond did not contact the UK ministers, despite indicating his willingness to do so, and therefore "cannot be criticised" because he must be "judged by what he did, as opposed to what he said he was prepared to do".

During the Inquiry, Mr Salmond argued that the Scottish Ministerial Code, which restricts ministers from promoting an individual company's products or services, does not prevent them from "fulfilling their proper function of encouragingINVESTMENT in economic activity".

"Mr Salmond is right that legal responsibility for taking the decision lawfully rested with the Secretary of State.

"The evidence does not go so far as to show either an express or an implied deal between Mr Salmond and James MurdochTRADING newspaper support for assistance with the bid.

He concluded: "I have absolutely no doubt that Mr Salmond was motivated by an anxiety to help Scottish employment and to benefit Scotland generally: that is entirely laudable and exactly what is the expectation and proper function of the First Minister.

"Judged by what he did, as opposed to what he said he was prepared to do, therefore, he cannot be criticised."

Commenting on today's report, Mr Salmond's spokesman said: "Today's report is a complete vindication of the First Minister's position in terms of the case he was prepared to put to promote Scottish jobs and the wider Scottish economic interest.

"As Lord (Justice) Leveson himself says, Mr Salmond 'cannot be criticised' in respect of the BSkyB takeover issue and was 'motivated by an anxiety to help Scottish employment and to benefit Scotland generally' which was 'entirely laudable and exactly what is the expectation and proper function of the First Minister'.

"This report drives a coach and horses through the claims of opposition politicians in the Scottish Parliament, whose own parties' dealings with News Corporation and other major media organisations have been far greater than those of the First Minister

Edited May 22, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[feral chile]

Your right, but if I'm looking for my ideal candidate, they are probably 30 plus. This isn't anti snp, I think Labour have a 26 year old. I agree we need a variety of opinions (even if most do as told by whips) but just think some extra life experience doesn't harm.

Well people tend to get less idealistic as they get older, so a bit of enthusiasm might be a good thing. I was going to suggest that you might develop more bias with time, then realised that could go either way, as you learn life isn't as simple as you thought.

[LJS]

Indeed...

But it has been confirmed today that this is an accurate version of the memo. It seems very doubtful that the civil servant did anything but faithfully report the conversation with the consul general, even to the point of highlighting how unusual it was to hear it.

Either PAC was having some fun, which seems unlikely, or this genuinely was the impression that Sylvie Bermann got from Sturgeon & communicated to PAC

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Funnily enough there is already plenty of chat on-line from delightful snips changing the story and suggesting that Carmichael made the whole thing up himself! Who'd have thunk it!

Also funny that so many people were very convinced at the time that the leak came from the conservatives.

Right, at the risk of being really really repetitive and boring, let me repeat. The civil servant who wrote it cast doubt on its accuracy, the politician who leaked it has acknowledged it was not true, everyone who actually attended the meeting has said it was not accurate.

How fucking desperate do you have to be if you are still trying to say there is any truth in it?

[LJS]

Just wanted to clarify that I do not believe the UK should be run by 20 year old lesbian students with part time jobs in chip shops. I think that would be at least as ridiculous as it being run by middle aged white (presumably- heterosexual) men who all went to elitist schools & universities together.

I cannot believe that the hatred of the Snp runs so strong in your blood that you prefer to vilify Mhairi Black & leave the Tory elite unscathed.

[viberunner]

it's a big deal when on the one hand people say labour is full of politicians with no real-world experience, then they vote for a 20 year old with no real-world experience, and also a severe lack of actual life experience. It's hypocritical, and laughable.

Labour is. It's full of Oxford PPE clones who went to fee paying schools (or state schools in the sort of catchment areas that cost a million quid to get in).

And you know it. It's why Scotland didn't vote for them and it's why England didn't agree to vote for them.

And booing and weeping that a wee roughly lassie from Paisley could beat the incumbent won't change it.

[viberunner]

Alistair Carmichael, the Lib Dem former Scottish secretary, has come under pressure to resign as an MP after admitting being responsible for an election leak intended to damage Nicola Sturgeon.

Carmichael said he authorised his special adviser to release a memo about a private conversation in which Scotland’s first minister purportedly said she wanted David Cameron to remain as prime minister. As a consequence neither he nor his adviser would be taking the severance pay they were due, the Lib Dem MP for Orkney and Shetland said.

Describing his action as “an error of judgment”, Carmichael said he had apologised tothe SNP leader and that, if he had still been a minister, this would have been a resigning matter. He added that he accepted the memo was wrong about Sturgeon being pro-Cameron.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/lib-dem-alistair-carmichael-admits-responsibility-anti-sturgeon-leak-mp-snp-leader-david-cameron

There's more but that's the gist.

There was also something something something SNIPPERS about this in the eFestivals forums but I think us snippers, having been proved right, again, can leave the war-crimes trials for another day.

[viberunner]

If the country was run by 20 year old's we'd be doomed. It's a joke. She's a joke. She knows nothing.

Given you've never met her how do you know what she knows?

[viberunner]

no one is disputing that the memo was accurately recorded by whichever Scottish Office civil servant wrote it ...

Except the man who leaked it?

He added that he accepted the memo was wrong about Sturgeon being pro-Cameron.

And of course the strong and consistent dispute by the SNP of being pro-Cameron.

Other parts of the memo were not disputed, including the part where Alex Salmond might get up to all sorts of mischief in Westminster.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/lib-dem-alistair-carmichael-admits-responsibility-anti-sturgeon-leak-mp-snp-leader-david-cameron

[eFestivals]

The civil servant who wrote it doubted its accuracy!

He doubted that how he'd been told it wasn't how it was said - a slightly different thing, but the distinction is important.

Do note that the official enquiry concluded he accurately recorded what he was told.

So the question is: how the French Consul come to believe that was said in the meeting? It's not difficult to work it out.

the mp who leaked it has acknowledged it was inaccurate!

Again, that's not quite what Carmichael said - but anyway, you need to look at the official report, which concluded the Scottish Office civil servant accurately recorded what he was told.

None of this gets in the way of Neil's deranged SNP hatred. It discredits the snp so it must be true.

As I've always pointed out, Sturgeon only wants to talk about the leaking side of things, and not how the memo came to accurately record what the French told the Scottish Office.

Meanwhile, I'm hearing lots of "liars have to resign" from Scotland.... yet Salmond who lied about legal advice from the EU to try and win the indyref* is still a Scottish hero, and was re-eloected. How odd.

(* all much the same as carmichael did)

Edited May 23, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Except the man who leaked it?

That's not quite what he said, and you need to read the official report which says the memo was accurately recorded.

And of course the strong and consistent dispute by the SNP of being pro-Cameron.

Other parts of the memo were not disputed, including the part where Alex Salmond might get up to all sorts of mischief in Westminster.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/22/lib-dem-alistair-carmichael-admits-responsibility-anti-sturgeon-leak-mp-snp-leader-david-cameron

Nicola Sturgeon memo 'recorded accurately', official inquiry finds

Oh dear.

[eFestivals]

Right, at the risk of being really really repetitive and boring, let me repeat. The civil servant who wrote it cast doubt on its accuracy, the politician who leaked it has acknowledged it was not true, everyone who actually attended the meeting has said it was not accurate.

How fucking desperate do you have to be if you are still trying to say there is any truth in it?

The S.Office civil servant accurately recorded what he was told.

He added a piece to the memo saying he doubted that the conversation had taken place in the exact way he was told it.

What needs answering is why the French Consul General thought the conversation had happened in the way he told the S.Office.

Clearly, the French Consul General had been told it had happened much in the way he reported it, which means the French Ambassador believed the conversation had been saying (tho perhaps not with explicic words) that Sturgeon felt Miliband was unsuitable for PM and Sturgeoin wanted Cameron to win.

So why did the French Ambassador think that's what Sturgeon had been hinting at?

Did he invent it? Or had Sturgeon been making those suggestions.

Sturgeon has no interest in knowing, which is rather odd.

Apparently, it's only of interest that Carmichael was lying, but there's no interest in the other clear lies that happened within the whole thing. How odd.

Anyone might conclude that Sturgon doesn't want anyone to look too closely.

And she's certainly been happy to ignore the conclusions of the official report which says the memo was recorded accurately, to make a comment suggesting that it wasn't - the exact opposite of the truth.

Carmichael's lies bad, SNP lies good.

(I've noticed phrases like that are getting popular ... tho not quite like that one ).