General Election 2015

[Comfy Bean]

Or are we deflecting from a valid point that a young and inexperienced person might have been elected as an MP who might or might not add a valuable contribution to her constituents?

I`ll try again then Stash. I don`t think anyone is deflecting anything. I think that the majority of her constituents felt that she would add a valuable contribution. Hence they elected her.

[Comfy Bean]

Just seen the interview Carmichael gave on 5.4.15. In summary - I knew nothing till the journalist phoned me - it`s a tv interview. He then allows an investigation to take place over several weeks and at great expense to the taxpayer. He then, after the election and the investigation, admits to it and says he would have considered it a resignation issue.

This was the first minister of scotland ( whether you like her or not ) and he leaked this and then denied doing so to the Telegraph. Goodbye Alistair, you weren`t the worst and I believe you do greatly regret your actions.

Just for fun, guess who said this a few years back :

A politician, the argument seems to go, should be allowed to make whatever outrageous and untruthful claim that he or she wants about an opponent.

It is a thoroughly depressing argu­­ment to listen to. Everyone knows that politics is a robust trade, especially in an election campaign. No-one would expect candi­dates to spend their time highlighting their opponents’ virtues but to suggest any smear is justifiable must be wrong.

Most worryingly it betrays an attitude that I had hoped would have been eradicated by the expenses scandals of the last parliament – namely that different rules should apply to MPs than apply to the rest of the population. If Tesco tried to smear the Co-op in the same way it would soon be in trouble. Why should politics be different?

The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending.

[Comfy Bean]

Marxist backs Civil Service Inquiry into Civil Servant? (Despite everyone at the meeting saying something else).

Oh dear indeed. Che would be most disappointed in you meladdo.

I suspect that Neil`s view may have been slightly different if this had not involved the SNP. Just a suspicion mind and in fairness he did state ( eventually ) that Carmichael should go.

I think he will resign on ( bank holiday ) Monday.

[Stash]

I suspect that Neil`s view may have been slightly different if this had not involved the SNP. Just a suspicion mind and in fairness he did state ( eventually ) that Carmichael should go.

I think he will resign on ( bank holiday ) Monday.

I hate to put any words in Neil's mouth, but i read yesterday that he was surprised it was an MP not a SPAD who was responsible, yet immediately he suggested it was a sacking offence:

Here are his first words...

"Very very naughty. Gotta say I'm surprised it was a politician and not a civil servant. He should be barred from public office."

Anything else you would like to make up....eurovision is a good night to do it!

[Comfy Bean]

I hate to put any words in Neil's mouth, but i read yesterday that he was surprised it was an MP not a SPAD who was responsible, yet immediately he suggested it was a sacking offence:

Here are his first words...

Anything else you would like to make up....eurovision is a good night to do it!

Stash mate this has been rumbling on on here for weeks. In your post ( above at 10.08pm ) you have omitted the date and time from Neils quote although you have managed to include my quote in full from earlier tonight.

I feel that I correctly and fairly credited Neil, to a point, when I stated " In fairness he ( Neil ) did state ( eventually ) that Carmichael should go "

I`m sure Neil will appreciate your efforts to defend him but there really was no need.

I`m ignoring the last bit of your post

Edited May 23, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[viberunner]

I can's quite work out what the PPE is short for, but I assume public/private education??

If you really didn't know about the Oxford "Politics, Philosophy, and Economics" degree? Oh. Erm.

study philosophy, politics and economics (PPE) at Oxford University and you get power and influence thrown in with your degree certificate on graduation day.

At least that's the way it looks. Of the current cabinet, David Cameron, William Hague, Jeremy Hunt and Philip Hammond all read PPE: as did Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and Danny Alexander along with about another 30 MPs. Among many others at the BBC, Nick Robinson, Stephanie Flanders, Evan Davis and Newsnight editor Ian Katz read PPE. At least eight journalists at the Guardian read PPE, with similar numbers at the other broadsheets. And tabloids, for that matter. Toby Young read PPE. Even Chris Huhne read PPE.

When asked by Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight if it rankled that Cameron had got a first when he had only got a 2:1, Boris Johnson, whose degree was in classics, said: "It would if it wasn't that his first was in PPE." His message was clear: PPE was an inferior degree.

"There were those who had chosen PPE precisely because it was a springboard to a career in the politics or the media," says a former student. "They had their whole lives mapped out from the moment they arrived at Oxford. They knew they were going to edit the student newspaper, be president of the union and what job they were going to end up in. They probably even knew whom they were going to marry. They seemed to have got just about everything else right."

"It's definitely something that is commented on and joked about," says a graduate from Wadham. "There's a moment in The West Wing, a flashback I think, when one character is handed a napkin with 'Bartlett for President' written on as they plan to make him run for office. Well, I'd be lying if I said there weren't more than a few drunken nights that ended with someone being handed a napkin with 'X for Prime Minister' written on. People are fully aware, and much of the student union is made up of PPE students. That creates a pressure in its own way too – I certainly still think about it. I think most people who did it are interested in politics, and so it's natural to wonder if you could do it better – especially as you see more and more of your peers getting heavily involved."

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/sep/23/ppe-passport-power-degree-oxford

Go to the Wiki page of the Oxford PPE graduates. Tell me that's not an old boy's (and old girl's) network.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_Oxford_people_with_PPE_degrees

Edited May 23, 2015 by viberunner

[brandycoke]

Nicola sturgeon did not say she wanted dave to be pm.

In fact she went on live TV many many times and clearly stated the opposite. She was in step with the vast vast majority of people in Scotland.

50% of the electorate is way off the vast majority of people here in Scotland.

[LJS]

50% of the electorate is way off the vast majority of people here in Scotland.

I think if you read what Comfy said, he was talking about the number of people who agreed with the Blessed Nicola that Dave shouldn't be pm which would be about 85% of those who voted.

[Comfy Bean]

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people in Scotland did not want Dave to be pm.

Of course bc some here in Scotland do and they are quite entitled to want that. They are in a minority though.

[viberunner]

Are you trying to suggest that the reason Scotland didn't vote for Labour was because the house price in some southern UK constituencies is too high and that in some of those constituencies a labour candidate might or might not have been elected?

Or are we deflecting from a valid point that a young and inexperienced person might have been elected as an MP who might or mighht not add a valuable contribution to her constituents?

(1) No, I'm suggesting the reason Labour didn't do well in Scotland is it is looking ever more like a plaything full of rich (but possibly well-meaning) selectively-educated people from highly privileged backgrounds who mouthbreathe platitudes each election time but who wouldn't know a radical idea if it jumped up their arse and pulled their strings for a week.

(2) Lots of shit MPs get elected, all parties, all ages.

Well, it's sweet the curtain-twitchers of provincial Little England care so much about the governance of Paisley West but even though she's twenty the electorate of Paisley West knew that when they chose to vote for her. If anything is a distraction its that we're talking about her - as if she's guilty until begrudgingly proven innocent - yet we have an on-the-record liar of a Scottish MP who cost the taxpayer £1.4 million quid because he decided to play a lie AND he's trying to cling onto his seat.

[Comfy Bean]

Sorry ljs beat me to it :-)

[brandycoke]

I think if you read what Comfy said, he was talking about the number of people who agreed with the Blessed Nicola that Dave shouldn't be pm which would be about 85% of those who voted.

Oh i read what exactly what he said , unfortunately, there's no logic in discussion with a nationalist.

[viberunner]

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people in Scotland did not want Dave to be pm.

No need to be "pretty sure", the Conservatives polled about 15% and with UKIP got under 17%.

In England the Conservatives and UKIP got 55%.

[kaosmark2]

yet we have an on-the-record liar of a Scottish MP who cost the taxpayer £1.4 million quid because he decided to play a lie AND he's trying to cling onto his seat.

I thought you were a fan of Salmond?

[pink_triangle]

I'm sure there were a small amount of people who voted for her because she was young and gay and small amount against. Looking at results throughout Scotland, I suspect many good and mediocre Labour mps have been replaced by good and mediocre snp mps and that most people have voted for party and not person. I suspect many of us on here would have been voted in the bulk of the consistency wearing the right colour rosette.

[LJS]

Oh i read what exactly what he said , unfortunately, there's no logic in discussion with a nationalist.

So, you misunderstand or misinterpret what Comfy says, making your reply completely irrelevant & it's us nats that are lacking in logic?

[eFestivals]

Nicola sturgeon did not say she wanted dave to be pm.

In fact she went on live TV many many times and clearly stated the opposite. She was in step with the vast vast majority of people in Scotland.

you seem to have the view that it's impossible for an SNP politician to lie.

I point you at the proven lies of Alex Salmond, where he lied for political advantage and had to own up to his lies in light of the evidence (or the no evidence where Salmond said he had something when he knew he never did).

[eFestivals]

I suspect that Neil`s view may have been slightly different if this had not involved the SNP. Just a suspicion mind and in fairness he did state ( eventually ) that Carmichael should go.

I think he will resign on ( bank holiday ) Monday.

As ever, a snipper resorts to lies ... in this case, to try and make their point stronger than it is.

I *IMMEDIATELY said - not merely that Carmichael should go - but that he should be barred from public office.

I'd say the same about any politician who is proven to have lied to manipulate the political process. It's called high standards.

Meanwhile, you think Salmond is fit for office.

[eFestivals]

Stash mate this has been rumbling on on here for weeks. In your post ( above at 10.08pm ) you have omitted the date and time from Neils quote although you have managed to include my quote in full from earlier tonight.

I feel that I correctly and fairly credited Neil, to a point, when I stated " In fairness he ( Neil ) did state ( eventually ) that Carmichael should go "

I`m sure Neil will appreciate your efforts to defend him but there really was no need.

I`m ignoring the last bit of your post

There was no "eventually".

Lies, lies lies.

Lies and myths are all you have.

[viberunner]

you seem to have the view that it's impossible for an SNP politician to lie. I point you at the proven lies of Alex Salmond, where he lied for political advantage and had to own up to his lies in light of the evidence (or the no evidence where Salmond said he had something when he knew he never did).

The lie being Alex promised to help lobby for Scottish jobs but then didn't, this making Sturgeon as bad as Carmichael?

Edited May 24, 2015 by viberunner

[eFestivals]

I thought you were a fan of Salmond?

Lies by the SNP are the new truth, didn't you know?

[eFestivals]

The lie being he promised to help lobby for Scottish jobs but then didn't?

You mean lie to steal jobs from England ... if he'd have got a corrupt pay-off in return.

(PS: no jobs were under threat anyway ... it's all 1000% bullshit).

That's merely one of his proven lies. You've not been paying attention, have you?

Salmond has been caught lying about the number of meeting he's had with Murdoch.

Salmond put the cost of those meetings on expenses - when he'd not declared the meetings on the basis they were "private" meetings and not part of his public role.

Salmond lied about having had legal advice about an indy Scotland's position vis-a-vis the EU.

He lied about this both with official words spoken in Holyrood, and on TV.

Salmond then wasted Scottish taxpayers money* on lawyers to try and hide his lies.

* (that could have helped those hit by the bedroom tax, which the SNP haven't covered off in entirety, because they want some in Scotland to feel the pain coming from England - which is doing the best for Scotland, of course ... and people say IDS is a c**t, he's nothing on Swinney )

Oh, and Salmond also hid from you two letters from the EU which categorically prove his lies in the White Paper, too.

Edited May 24, 2015 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

As ever, a snipper resorts to lies ... in this case, to try and make their point stronger than it is.

I *IMMEDIATELY said - not merely that Carmichael should go - but that he should be barred from public office.

I'd say the same about any politician who is proven to have lied to manipulate the political process. It's called high standards.

Meanwhile, you think Salmond is fit for office.

Neil, I acknowledged that you stated carmichael should go. I agree with you. I didn't quote you in full about him being barred from public office which you clearly did say. If you genuinely think I Misrepresented what you said then I apologies but it was not what I intended. Where I disagree with you I will say so. In this case, he should go is clearly what we both think.

All this talk of lies and Salmond Looks like deflection from the issue at hand today. Carmichael lied and should go.

Why are you bringing Salmond into this today. We were all clearly dealing with this current carmichael business. We spoke about Salmond alot the other day. Why you so desperate to take the discussion back down that road....again.

[LJS]

Neil, I acknowledged that you stated carmichael should go. I agree with you. I didn't quote you in full about him being barred from public office which you clearly did say. If you genuinely think I Misrepresented what you said then I apologies but it was not what I intended. Where I disagree with you I will say so. In this case, he should go is clearly what we both think.

All this talk of lies and Salmond Looks like deflection from the issue at hand today. Carmichael lied and should go.

Why are you bringing Salmond into this today. We were all clearly dealing with this current carmichael business. We spoke about Salmond alot the other day. Why you so desperate to take the discussion back down that road....again.

He's bringing Salmond in to avoid him saying, 'you know what guys, you were right about the memo & I was wrong'

And he does love banging on & on & on about the one & only piece of (sort of) proven SNP corruption he can find.

[LJS]

It's not as if other political parties have unblemished records where corruption & undue influence are concerned. I was amazed how many examples I'd forgotten about when I read through the attached list.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=q5FhVf3xM8XwUMD-gtAH&url=http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_scandals_in_the_United_Kingdom&ved=0CCAQFjAB&usg=AFQjCNHcklvP5xnRXx-o1ZxJoDpAuJFVEQ&sig2=35OoboXaDV5c_pKjSjfhKw

Edit: Oh look here's some more dodgy dealing by MP's who are neither SNP or Alec Salmond

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mps-accept-tobacco-industry-hospitality-worth-60000--including-a-paul-mccartney-concert-10265049.html

Edited May 24, 2015 by LJS