General Election 2015

[LondonTom]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/03/alex-salmond-i-would-bring-down-any-tory-minority-government

Like Labour, the SNP opposes a referendum on UK membership of the European Union, and Salmond has no interest in seeking to renegotiate British membership of the EU. He is unashamedly in favour of immigration and, indeed, wants more of it. “Does Scotland need more people? Yes. The debate I want to have is one that recognises the underlying challenge, which is how to balance your working age and your retired population . . . You want to encourage people to come and stay, but I’m in favour of immigration rather than migrant labour . . . The offer you want to make to people is: if you like us, come be part of us.”

Surely if thats the case, then he should be asking and addressing why immigrants are not choosing to come and stay in Scotlnad right now then, under our current system?

[Comfy Bean]

Surely if thats the case, then he should be asking and addressing why immigrants are not choosing to come and stay in Scotlnad right now then, under our current system?

But they are mate. The SNP have been consistent in their support for immigration, they encourage it. What Salmond said yesterday in his interview is nothing new. The attached gives the increased figures. It`s from the Telegraph ( sorry ) but you have to laugh at the " warning " on immigration at the beginning of the article from Dave and then if you look closely ( near the bottom ) there is the SNP quote :

But an SNP spokesman said: “These are excellent figures, which mean a growing population will help fuel our economic recovery. The SNP believes Scotland should have responsibility for immigration policy.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/8478223/Scottish-immigration-at-record-levels.html

[Comfy Bean]

What "principle" does Salmond hold above all others? That he wants a Labour govt, or that he wants to destroy the UK set-up for his own grab at power?

Has Nicola Sturgeon 100% ruled out ANY deal with the Tories ?

Has Salmond 100% ruled out ANY deal with the Tories ?

Has Salmond said he will lock Dave out of no.10 by forming a Group of anti-Tory MP`s ?

Have Labour 100% ruled out ANY deal with the Tories ( see attached ) ?

http://labourlist.org/2015/03/labour-mp-says-party-shouldnt-rule-out-a-grand-coalition-with-the-tories/

I think we all get that you don`t like the SNP but you cannot keep making this up to suit your own personal agenda

How about we ALL agree that Salmond has a big smug coupon and leave it at that. What do you not like about the SNP moves to bring an end to the Tory Govt ?

Do you think there are Labour MP`s in England who are quite happy with the latest SNP developments ? I do.

The SNP are already stating that they have no interest in taking up places in Millibands cabinet but they " could " put them into number 10 and remove Dave and the Tories. What`s not to like about that ? I thought you would be pleased as it could be Ed`s only hope of getting in there.

Vote SNP get Tory is dead in the water same as it ever was

[eFestivals]

Garbage performance from Milliband At PMQs....

tho no doubt a much better performance that Chicken Dave managed to give the oldies yesterday, nicely edited out on the BBC by his old school chum who's trying to gift Chicken Dave the election.

[eFestivals]

The SNP have been consistent in their support for immigration, they encourage it.

unfortunately, there's a few issues with that.

1. the people of scotland don't want more immigration, as shown by all recent polls.

2. Scotland can't attract immigrants, because people don't want to emigrate to Scotland.

3. if Scotland does get some people to commit to moving to Scotland, they'll soon naff off to that there London, where they really want to be.

And so, this is a policy to nowhere and Salmond knows it is because it can never be implemented without also getting a border wall with England - which guarantees it'll never happen.

[eFestivals]

Has Nicola Sturgeon 100% ruled out ANY deal with the Tories ?

Has Salmond 100% ruled out ANY deal with the Tories ?

Has Salmond said he will lock Dave out of no.10 by forming a Group of anti-Tory MP`s ?

Have Labour 100% ruled out ANY deal with the Tories ( see attached ) ?

http://labourlist.org/2015/03/labour-mp-says-party-shouldnt-rule-out-a-grand-coalition-with-the-tories/

I think we all get that you don`t like the SNP but you cannot keep making this up to suit your own personal agenda

How about we ALL agree that Salmond has a big smug coupon and leave it at that. What do you not like about the SNP moves to bring an end to the Tory Govt ?

Do you think there are Labour MP`s in England who are quite happy with the latest SNP developments ? I do.

The SNP are already stating that they have no interest in taking up places in Millibands cabinet but they " could " put them into number 10 and remove Dave and the Tories. What`s not to like about that ? I thought you would be pleased as it could be Ed`s only hope of getting in there.

Vote SNP get Tory is dead in the water same as it ever was

What part of my words didn't you understand, apart from every word?

What "principle" does Salmond hold above all others? That he wants a Labour govt, or that he wants to destroy the UK set-up for his own grab at power?

Salmond's aim is not good govt of the UK.

It's to destroy the UK.

He does that by empowering the tories, tho not only in the way those with limited thinking are able to deduce for themselves - as you've just proven.

[Comfy Bean]

What part of my words didn't you understand, apart from every word?

He does that by empowering the tories, tho not only in the way those with limited thinking are able to deduce for themselves - as you've just proven.

My point on " thinking " is that Salmond seems to be ahead of the game here. You haven`t rolled out Vote SNP get Tory for a while

Your quotes above were in response to my post which included 6 ( six ) questions....hows about some answers as these attempts at insults ( if thats what they were ) do nothing for the discussion.

You know that Salmond aint doing no deal with the Tories. You`ve always known it Just fess up. Salmond could be our best chance of getting Ed into number 10.

There is no referendum on the horizon, Salmond lost move on ( like he has ). This is a general election, do you want to see Dave remain in Downing Street ? I`m assuming you don`t so do you accept that Salmonds latest move will be worrying Dave and the Tories. Of course I agree 100% that Salmond`s end game is Independence but it`s off the table mate.

A Labour Govt propped up by MP`s from my region on a vote by vote basis is the way forward at this time.

[Comfy Bean]

" Destroy the UK " I mentioned Salmond trolling the right wing press earlier. Guess where you got that line

[eFestivals]

My point on " thinking " is that Salmond seems to be ahead of the game here.

not at all. Why do you think there's such a reaction to him? It's because people know what he's up to. He's transparent.

You haven`t rolled out Vote SNP get Tory for a while

Salmond is doing the anti-SNP campaigning himself, I don't need to.

Your quotes above were in response to my post which included 6 ( six ) questions....hows about some answers as these attempts at insults ( if thats what they were ) do nothing for the discussion.

Tell you what, why you you answer the question you just won't address, that i've been asking for weeks and you always run from? What does GERS say about the state of the Scottish economy compared to whole-UK?

Edited March 25, 2015 by eFestivals

[gary1979666]

So if Tory's get the most MPs, but not enough for a majority, and try a MinGov, the SNP will vote against them. OK. But if Labour don't have enough for a majority either or a coalition, but cobble some kind of agreement together with the SNP - but with Alex wanting to hold the govt to ransom, as he said, then a steady government doesn't look that likely. Could end up with another election, which according to my esteemed fellow posters, will result in a Tory majority.

Seems like the best choice for people who don't want the Tories, is to vote Labour. Who'd have thought it?!

[gary1979666]

Garbage performance from Milliband At PMQs....

Can you rule out a rise in VAT..... yes

He never recovered... Pathetic

Didn't see it, but I'm guessing he challenged Cameron on the VAT rise. Shame they spent all that money on that new poster.

[eFestivals]

You know that Salmond aint doing no deal with the Tories. You`ve always known it

It's much more possible than you believe. As an easy examp0le, if they offered him indy, what would he say?

I don't really expect him to do a deal with the tories, but it's not the impossibility you think.

But what does he want? A tory win. Which is why he's out campaigning for the tories, and using their campaign slogans.

Are you really so dim?

Just fess up. Salmond could be our best chance of getting Ed into number 10.

he's the best chance of in now, he's also the best chance of never in again - which suits Salmond just perfectly.

What have you missed?

There is no referendum on the horizon, Salmond lost move on ( like he has ).

PMSL - yeah, cos he's all about positive contribution and not wrecking, yeah.

FFS.

This is a general election, do you want to see Dave remain in Downing Street ?

I don't, but there's much more than just that at play. Why has it passed you by?

Breaking up the UK is not to my benefit and it's certainly not to yours with SNP cuts of 15%, but that's where we're heading. I know you don't care cos y9ou like punching yourself in the face, but some of us do. Whereas snippers express fake concern for Scotland's poor, not all are as fact-free in their thinking.#

This election looks like playing out as the election where the effective opposition to the tories gets killed off, and then they rule forever. A perfect result for fact-free you I know, but your countrymen disagree.

I`m assuming you don`t so do you accept that Salmonds latest move will be worrying Dave and the Tories.

not at all, they're as capable of reading the Fixed Parliament Act just as Salmond's done. The tories know how it works.

They're loving the propaganda that Salmond is giving their campaign and the votes and seats they'll win precisely because of what Salmond is doing.

And Salmon knows what he's doing.

are you daft enough to think he doesn't?

Of course I agree 100% that Salmond`s end game is Independence but it`s off the table mate.

yeah, because there's been nothing said about another indyref if the UK votes tory and Scotland votes SNP, and there's been nothing said about another indyref if the UK votes to leave the EU, and Salmond has never suggested that he might even declare UDI.

FFS.

Are you really so thick as to think his sole aim isn't to create divisions wherever he can, to try and bring about indy?

And really, all of the previous 'insults' you've taken have been banter. I really do mean "thick" there, if that's how your thinking really is. Wake up man, if you want to walk to disaster, at least do it with your eyes open, to know what you're following.

A Labour Govt propped up by MP`s from my region on a vote by vote basis is the way forward at this time.

and the way to indie a very short time down the line, you hope.

Yeah, people in England know.

That's why no one will play with Alex and you'll have wasted all political influence with your vote.

Vote SNP get marginalised.

You can claim that won't happen, but you'll see that it does no matter who wins.

[Comfy Bean]

So if Tory's get the most MPs, but not enough for a majority, and try a MinGov, the SNP will vote against them. OK. But if Labour don't have enough for a majority either or a coalition, but cobble some kind of agreement together with the SNP - but with Alex wanting to hold the govt to ransom, as he said, then a steady government doesn't look that likely. Could end up with another election, which according to my esteemed fellow posters, will result in a Tory majority.

Seems like the best choice for people who don't want the Tories, is to vote Labour. Who'd have thought it?!

Not so. If the Labour seats hold up in England then the Tories would be out if Ed supports Salmonds cunning plan. No offence Gary but your guys could be out on their ear. As you know, today is the first day I have predicted that. Neil was telling us that Labour would win this GE last year in the Indy thread and now it looks like Ed could find himself PM Neil was right, just not in the way he expected.

[eFestivals]

So if Tory's get the most MPs, but not enough for a majority, and try a MinGov, the SNP will vote against them. OK. But if Labour don't have enough for a majority either or a coalition, but cobble some kind of agreement together with the SNP - but with Alex wanting to hold the govt to ransom, as he said, then a steady government doesn't look that likely. Could end up with another election, which according to my esteemed fellow posters, will result in a Tory majority.

If there's a second election, it will 100% be a tory win. And Salmond will cheer from the rooftops.

Labour won't do a deal with the SNP, absolutely zero. They'll accept SNP votes for their policies (not that they can stop them anyway), but they won't 'sell' a single thing to the SNP for voting support. There's no alternative to that for Labour, and Labour will look to expose the SNP via that - cos the SNP are not the only one with some strings to pull.

So it'll be "vote SNP get marginalised". Anything else will be the quick death of Labour and they're really not that stupid (at least I hope they're not).

Seems like the best choice for people who don't want the Tories, is to vote Labour. Who'd have thought it?!

it's the only option (with a few exceptions, mostly Tory/Lib marginals).

[eFestivals]

" Destroy the UK " I mentioned Salmond trolling the right wing press earlier. Guess where you got that line

What?

It's what Salmond has been trying to do for 25+ years.

FFS, why do you think that's today's news? That takes a special type of stupid from a snipper.

Edited March 25, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Not so. If the Labour seats hold up in England then the Tories would be out if Ed supports Salmonds cunning plan. No offence Gary but your guys could be out on their ear. As you know, today is the first day I have predicted that. Neil was telling us that Labour would win this GE last year in the Indy thread and now it looks like Ed could find himself PM Neil was right, just not in the way he expected.

at the moment it's heading for a tory victory. What have you missed?

[gary1979666]

Comfy - if Neil and I mostly agree on this, there must be something to it (not saying it's a fact ). We want different things from the election, but we can see through the mist that SNP MPs aren't good for people wanting a Labour govt over a Tory one.

[gary1979666]

at the moment it's heading for a tory victory. What have you missed?

I'm not so sure on that one, but bar a disaster between now and May, I think they'll end up with the biggest chunk of the votes. Whether that translates into MP's I don't know. Historically Tories share increases in the weeks before an election and Labours reduces (except 2010, which shows the Clegg effect) - I know it's speculation and won't necessarily happen this time, but it's not worth discounting.

[Comfy Bean]

Tell you what, why you you answer the question you just won't address, that i've been asking for weeks and you always run from? What does GERS say about the state of the Scottish economy compared to whole-UK?

Not true, unless you think asking it ( again ) in a different thread counts

Can I post across quotes from the Indy thread ? Not sure how to do that or even if you can ?

We had this out across several pages over the 12/13/14th March. Since I wasted 5mins of my life that I`ll never get back checking, I can also confirm that LJS debated the Gers figures at length with you on and around the same dates.

In summary the GERS figures were very bad. You couldn`t answer why different measure were used in the Scottish region eg costs of water are included in Scotland but nowhere else. You wouldn`t accept that services are more expensive to deliver in more remote parts of the Country. Scotland was the 4th highest performing region and Scotland had the highest tax paid per head ratio. Higher than any other region for the 34th year in a row. I doubted this myself and asked you where London fitted in but you couldn`t answer. We spoke about the interest payments servicing the horrendous debt the UK is in and their relevance to gers and you kept getting me and LJS to accept the figures were very bad for Scotland which they are. You wouldn`t however concede that it is difficult to forsee how an Indy Scotland would fair in an imaginery situation when it is not led by the Westminster parties / policies so it all got a bit crystal ball like. You of course have made your mind up that it would be a disaster and all of Scotland would return to the dark ages or something along those lines. Feel free to check back. 12/13/14 March 2015.

[Comfy Bean]

Comfy - if Neil and I mostly agree on this, there must be something to it (not saying it's a fact ). We want different things from the election, but we can see through the mist that SNP MPs aren't good for people wanting a Labour govt over a Tory one.

Remember on the Indy thread you kept asking me to do the maths . The SNP MP`s will not appear at Westminster as mist. They are offering to join with Labour by forming a group of " anti - Tory MP`s " to put Ed in number 10. Salmond knows how well this will go down in Scotland. Vote SNP Tories out. Of course, due to numbers he can NEVER win a GE. This has to be the next best thing for him.

I accept you are not happy about this and respect your political choices. I`m surprised at the position Neil seems to be taking which is why I was trying to understand his views early. He dodged my questions 9 6 ) by posing several questions of his own. Labour voters in England not to mention Labour MP`s will see Ed scraping into number 10 as better than leaving Dave in there for another 5 years. Again - no offence

Oh and if you and Neil are now agreeing all the time, is that one of these Grand Alliances I keep hearing about

[eFestivals]

In summary the GERS figures were very bad.

so bad that Scotland would need to make cuts of 15% in public spending.

You couldn`t answer why different measure were used in the Scottish region eg costs of water are included in Scotland but nowhere else.

Yes I can. Salmond chooses what to include and not include, to make the Scottish economy look as good as possible.

You meanwhile always mention "london train sets" which Salmond has explicitly excluded from the numbers, to make the Scottish economy look as good as possible.

You wouldn`t accept that services are more expensive to deliver in more remote parts of the Country.

You what? PMSL.

I've always accepted that. It the exact reason why the Scottish economy is so fucked - and nothing to do with Westminster screwing over Scotland.

Scotland was the 4th highest performing region and Scotland had the highest tax paid per head ratio. Higher than any other region for the 34th year in a row. I doubted this myself and asked you where London fitted in but you couldn`t answer. We spoke about the interest payments servicing the horrendous debt the UK is in and their relevance to gers and you kept getting me and LJS to accept the figures were very bad for Scotland which they are. You wouldn`t however concede that it is difficult to forsee how an Indy Scotland would fair in an imaginery situation when it is not led by the Westminster parties / policies so it all got a bit crystal ball like. You of course have made your mind up that it would be a disaster and all of Scotland would return to the dark ages or something along those lines. Feel free to check back. 12/13/14 March 2015.

And Scotland had a massive deficit, far bigger than whole-UK ... the bit you refuse to ever acknowledge, instead hiding behind the bits which falsely try to make Scotland look good.

Dreams of a better tomorrow on the basis of nothing don't make a better economy. All countries believe they'll out-perform others, none of the mature economies ever do.

Go on, you can say "Scotland has a much worse deficit than whole-UK and would need to make huge cuts if self-financing".

Oh, you can't, can you? You'd rather keep lying to yourself.

Edited March 25, 2015 by eFestivals

[Comfy Bean]

Sorry folks that the Scottish Indy discussions have ended up in the wrong thread....... again !

My post this morning was very relevant to the GE but much to nobody`s surprise the GE thread has turned into SNP bashing again. I shouldn`t have even responded to the gers stuff from Neil ( again ). Will try and keep it to the correct thread in future

[gary1979666]

Remember on the Indy thread you kept asking me to do the maths . The SNP MP`s will not appear at Westminster as mist. They are offering to join with Labour by forming a group of " anti - Tory MP`s " to put Ed in number 10. Salmond knows how well this will go down in Scotland. Vote SNP Tories out. Of course, due to numbers he can NEVER win a GE. This has to be the next best thing for him.

I accept you are not happy about this and respect your political choices. I`m surprised at the position Neil seems to be taking which is why I was trying to understand his views early. He dodged my questions 9 6 ) by posing several questions of his own. Labour voters in England not to mention Labour MP`s will see Ed scraping into number 10 as better than leaving Dave in there for another 5 years. Again - no offence

Oh and if you and Neil are now agreeing all the time, is that one of these Grand Alliances I keep hearing about

No offence taken Can understand the differences in political leanings - and happy for others to have their own opinions (apart from imigrants, I am a Tory! (joke - for the record)

I don't think Neil's and my thinking is down to our political beliefs though, hence the agreement. Salmond's interview on Marr showed that the SNP will help Labour for a price and will depend if Labour want to pay that price. We saw the what the price of power reaped for the LibDems, so maybe they won't just pay it whatever.

It also begs the question if Labour MPs + SNP MPs > 325 (or there abouts) - if not what would Lib Dems / Greens ask for their seat at the table. It could end in another election, which would more than likely favour the Tories (if in fighting hasn't destroyed them)

[eFestivals]

I accept you are not happy about this and respect your political choices. I`m surprised at the position Neil seems to be taking which is why I was trying to understand his views early.

what part of Salmond's plan to wreck the UK, to make it ungovernable, and to then make both you and me worse off aren't you getting?

Oh, all of it. You think he's an honest politician.

Labour voters in England not to mention Labour MP`s will see Ed scraping into number 10 as better than leaving Dave in there for another 5 years. Again - no offence

There's what hapopens this time, and then there's what happens beyond this time. What don't you understyand about that?

Who will be the anti-tory opposition when England won't vote Labour, comfy?

But you don't care, you want a tory govt too. It's a snippers dream.

Oh and if you and Neil are now agreeing all the time, is that one of these Grand Alliances I keep hearing about

I guess so, an alliance of political intelligence against the fact-free snippers.

[eFestivals]

It could end in another election, which would more than likely favour the Tories (if in fighting hasn't destroyed them)

nah, Boris will be the new leader and the tories will clean up.